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Some methylation questions

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Johnmac, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    I've been on the Rich von K simplified protocol for 5 weeks (very beneficial). Now I want to get a bit more detailed & methodical.

    I've got my 23andme results, and have been through the Yasko book & Heartfixer site to determine what supps/diet changes to make, as workarounds for my SNPs. I've made a list of things to introduce - in 'Yasko order' (e.g. ACAT first). Questions:

    * So now I start introducing those things gradually, right?

    * Do I need every supplement for each SNP? For example ACAT needs Adenosyl B12, other forms of B12, low dose vit E succinate, a little Actofolate, CQ10, lactoferrin. SAMe, bile salts, GSH, curcumin, quercetin. For the sake of my wallet (& simplicity) could I (for example) forget about the quercetin, lactoferrin, bile salts and SAMe?

    * Typically, how long might I wait before I notice anything?

    * When do I move on to the next SNP?

    * Apart from my MAO-A (which is a simple +), all my SNPs are +/-. Most of the Yasko & Heartfixer recommendations are for people with +/+ SNPs. So do I just water down the prescriptions somewhat - take less?


    Any advice appreciated.

    Thanks,

    John

    FYI, I have these SNPs: ACAT, CBS, MTHFR, MTR, MTRR, BHMT, COMT, VDR (all +/-), and MAO-A (+).
     
  2. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi John,

    I'm not smart enough to answer your questions (although I would say in general that you probably don't need every single supplement they suggest for each issue), but just wanted to suggest that you post your message, or have it moved by the admins(?) to the methylation section -- you should get more replies...
     
  3. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Great suggestion - thanks. Done now.
     
  4. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    Hi Johnmac,

    It would be helpful if you could give a little history or what kind of problems are you having? About the SNP's,....just because there is a mutation doesn't necessarily mean you are having problems with them. I really believe some are compensatory for others. Some more difficult, some more important, etc.

    Are you having stomach issues? Slow wound healing? Any lab abnormalities or no labs? Does diet affect you and how? Do you have high homocysteine (Hcy) or CRP? Any heart problems? Do you know your vitamin D levels? Mood swings or aggressiveness or sleepy tired? Do you have problems with vitamin D, seasonal affective disorder (SAD), yadi ya.

    Some mutations can be an up-regulation and some a down-regulation. The + on MAO-A is singular, because this mutation is carried on the X chromosome, and inherited from the mother. In your case, if/or you have children, you will not contribute to their MAOA status.

    I do not believe you want to treat all of your concerns at once. Take things slow, add new things about every five to seven days. This will allow you to evaluate your body's reactions, and to more easily identify what makes you crash or what makes you feel better.

    And you will want to repost this in the methylation section. I believe you find more responses there.

    Lauriel
     
  5. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Thanks LaurieL.

    I have energy problems, psoriasis, slowing cognition, a mild eye allergy, a bit of OCD, low body temperatures (36s), some fatigue & sleepiness, inability to gain weight, eye floaters, am tense sometimes, skin hot spots, a slightly enlarged prostate, 3-4 fungal nails, tinnitus, and disordered sleep rhythms (sleep & wake late).

    Last month I was diagnosed with nephritis (lots of protein going into urine instead of blood). It's thought to be autoimmune, as were several illness I have had, including ankylosing spondylitis (which I cured).

    No mood swings or serious aggression.

    In the last year lab tests have revealed deficiencies of D (42) and B12, now fixed; and low aldosterone.

    I have been paleo since the 1990s because carbs make me sleep all the time, tho since beginning hydrocortisone (part of my chelation support) that's much less pronounced.

    I hold a fulltime job, so the above are not disabling.

    I'm 61 and male. I've done 18 months of heavy metal chelation, which has reduced some of the above & eliminated some other problems.

    What does "some are compensatory for others" mean?

    You suggested reposting this is the methylation section - that would be "Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation", yes?


    All responses welcome - thankyou again.

    John
     
  6. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Several of your complaints make me think you should check your thyroid. Tinnitus, low body temp, slow cognition, and energy problems could be tied in, and possibly even the enlarged prostate. You should get a full thyroid panel (TSH, FREE T4, FREE T3, the two autoimmunity tests), and reverse T3. Your TSH should not be >=2.0. The thyroid reference range is not based on science. See here: http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/blood_testing_02.htm?source=search&key=TSH reference range

    Now why I say the enlarged prostate could be tied in is because zinc is an aromatase inhibitor. Low zinc can cause hypothyroid and all the above symptoms (I am only guessing about the BPH though). On the other hand, inability to gain weight could be caused by HYPERthyroid. And you can have a mix of hyper and hypo symptoms when something is wrong with the thyroid (I did). You can run hyper, for example, until you are out of some needed nutrient, and then run hypo.

    I also wanted to say that you should check google.com/scholar for papers on psoriasis vs. Omega-3. I foud papers for someone before which showed that omega-3 can COMPLETELY CURE psoriasis over time.

    I have no doubt your genes cause you problems but sometimes the solutions come before the genes are identified.
     
  7. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

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    Thanks triffid113.

    I should have mentioned I had checked my free T3 & free T4, and both are low. (According to sensible standards - not mainstream medicine's.) I've been on dessicated thyroid (spectrum of thyroid hormones) for 18 months - tho I can't take enough to get my temps up to 98.6 without shedding too much weight. But the DT helps. Recent months I've had weird heart palps so thought maybe I had a RT3 build-up...which seems to be right, as a couple of weeks on T3-only has improved that a lot.

    I had my zinc tested at Xmas & it is at the high end.

    I've been on omega-3s for 15 or 20 years. I only take them because the science is so good - I'm afraid never noticed them actually doing anything.

    The hypo/hyper thyroid postulation is interesting tho. How does one diagnose that, and how does one treat it?
     
  8. Phred

    Phred Senior Member

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    Hi Johnmac,

    Hashimoto's is an autoimmune disease that attacks the thyroid. Since you're already dealing with autoimmune issues and you're worried about your thyroid you might want to look into that one. It can cause you to oscillate between hyer and hypothyroid. You need to have your TPO ab tested to look for it. Good luck.
     
  9. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Sorry, I just had the symptoms so I queued up labs to catch it and did so. I had to have requisitions in hand, wait for the fast hearet beat, test, then wait a day, retest
     
  10. caledonia

    caledonia

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    You've kind of gone about things in reverse order. ACAT and CBS are First Priority mutations, which means you would treat them first before doing MTHFR/MTR/MTRR. Rich's protocol treats the Second Priority mutations (MTHFR etc.) However, there is some indication from his study, that if you started very low and slow, his protocol would overcome the First Priority mutations as well.

    So if you're already tolerating his protocol well, then it seems like your First Priority mutations are not expressed and you don't have to worry about them. Assuming you can convert hydroxycobalamin properly, then you're already taking adenosylcobalamin, as hydroxy converts to adenosylcobalamin and methylcobalamin.

    You may want to do some testing to make sure though. You can use urine sulfate strips to see if your sulfate levels are high. This will tell you if CBS is expressed. I'm not sure off the top of my head what tests you can use for ACAT. I'm pretty sure Yasko mentions this in her book.

    You're only MAO-A + because you're a male (XY chromosomes) and it's only carried on the X chromosome, as explained above. So that's considered the same as +/+ for a female.

    Since you're COMT+ you'll need to be careful about not overdoing the methyl groups as this can cause mood swings. If you happen to run into trouble, you can soak up methyl groups with 50-100mg of extended release niacin. Ben Lynch's video has a good explanation of this.
     
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    You might want to check out the non-methylation supplements in Freddd's active B12 protocol. This would be everything except SAMe, TMG, choline, B12, folate. If you do add any of the ones involved in methylation I'd recommend starting at a low dose.
     

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