Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Some concerns about homeopathy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Esther12, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes:
    21,535
    Germany
    James Randi used to start his talks on homeopathy by sending a audience member to the nearest chemist to get two packets of homeopathic pills. He would then start the talk by taking the entire contents of both of them, with no apparent ill effects. Also with no apparent positive effects. In fact with no apparent effects whatsoever.
     
    IreneF, Forbin, Marky90 and 9 others like this.
  2. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes:
    7,278
    A perfect example of this is the magic kiss better.
    Plasters with Mr Bump on them also have magical healing properties.

    Isn't there a comedy sketch with Mitchell and Webb about a homeopathic hospital? Or was it a magic kiss better?
     
    IreneF, Sea, TigerLilea and 10 others like this.
  3. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member

    Messages:
    462
    Likes:
    2,295
    UK
    I think the sugar in them must have gone onto his midriff at some point.
     
    Kina, AndyPR, Valentijn and 3 others like this.
  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,843
    Likes:
    11,020
  5. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes:
    7,278
    Why is that woman in a box @adreno? Is she hysterical? My guess is her womb is wandering. You can't trust wombs.
     
  6. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes:
    21,535
    Germany
    It's certainly a very scientific way to keep the door open, and shows what the doctor thinks books are for.
     
  7. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,652
    Likes:
    5,006
  8. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes:
    7,278
    Thank you for finding that @barbc56 I am crying with laughter. Forgot how good it is.
     
    barbc56, BurnA and AndyPR like this.
  9. adreno

    adreno PR activist

    Messages:
    4,843
    Likes:
    11,020
    It's an orgone accumulator.
     
    barbc56, TigerLilea, Kina and 4 others like this.
  10. Joh

    Joh Inactivist

    Messages:
    720
    Likes:
    4,451
    Germany
    I'd love to be pointed towards practical minded and intelligent doctors in Germany. After getting ME 15 years ago I've yet to meet one (exception: 1 appointment in Charite, but you're not allowed to come back).

    It's true that some medical doctors in Germany are into homeopathy. My first experience was when I had a severe tonsillitis during my final high school exams and was only treated with homeopathic pills by a medical doctor. The result was that I got sicker during the exams and spent the vacation with friends afterwards with fever and tonsillitis in bed. The same story was repeated with similar bacterial infections. I'm quite convinced that the frequently reoccurring and untreated (or treated with homeopathy only) infections after having mono are an important puzzle piece of me getting ME.

    Even my current GP refuses to give antibiotics for IgM positive bacterial infections (last time a few weeks ago) and tells me to buy homeopathic remedies instead. I'm even taking homeopathic pills for sleep at the moment (unsuccessfully), because that's the only sleeping med I was able to get from a doctor.

    Problem is, that the only doctors who don't throw you out of their office with a ME diagnosis seem to be the alternative "open minded" ones. I had to hold back my tears when recently a medical doctor that was recommended to me for believing that ME exists (huge effort for my elderly mother to drive me there for hours) came with a dowsing/dousing rod (hope it's the right English term) at me (and based her homeopathic treatment plan on the recommendations of the vibrations of this magical stick). With ME it seems you're either left with stuff like this or you get no treatment at all. I don't understand why ME excludes you from proven symptomatic treatments and why I seem to be undeserving of evidence based medicine.

    I know that I should search for other doctors but that's a problem if one doctor visit gets you into bed for a month and telling your ME story to a new doctor and being treated as if you claimed to have been abducted by aliens is psychologically devastating and your mother in her late 70ies doesn't like driving far distances.

    In short: I had several bad experiences with homeopathic remedies that made me worse by not stopping infections. Met several medical doctors in Germany who prescribed them not as addition but as only treatment for active bacterial infections, sleep and pain. With ME it seems you're often either left with stuff like homeopathy and dowsing rods or get nothing at all.
     
    IreneF, trishrhymes, Sea and 15 others like this.
  11. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes:
    21,535
    Germany
    barbc56, Kina, AndyPR and 2 others like this.
  12. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes:
    7,278
    Wow! That is amazing. Aren't people wonderful? So imaginative.
     
    barbc56, AndyPR and TiredSam like this.
  13. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,938
    Likes:
    1,467
    UK
    As I said previously, some people are not likely candidates for homeopathic treatment especially those who have damaged the healing abilities of their bodies with pharmaceuticals, other substances, and above all a diet which prevents it from happening. In Germany, they had a whole pile of people in east Germany after the war who had been affected by the chemicals they were working with in the warfare factories. Having a history of interest in natural living and worship of nature, they were well placed to find means for thoese people to survive and homeopathy will have become even more popular..

    During my time in east Germany, I found that nearly everyone I mentioned my MCS to, understood what I was talking about whereas in the UK they think people who say they have this are nuts.
     
    Wonko likes this.
  14. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes:
    7,571
    I think when exclusions for certain "types" of people who have some unidentifiable reason for a treatment not working, that should raise a red flag for the validity of the treatment.

    This is the same principle used for a lot of faith treatments...provide a prescriptive set of requirements that are impossible to validate and then explain away lack of success by blaming the patient for not following things correctly or by being not suitable in the first place. These are the principles also applied by the BPS crew.

    Another technique is to use fear of lack of compliance ...I.e. If you don't do this properly something really bad is going to happen to you.

    This sort of argument goes back to belief rather than evidence
     
  15. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,938
    Likes:
    1,467
    UK
    You are overiding common sense. But it is true that any treatment that depends on the healing abilities of our bodies will be hampered for some people until they can remove the obstacles. There is loads of quackery out there, I agree but homeopathy is not one of them and hence why there is such a force against it coming from big pharma being in so much competition, it being cheap enough for anyone to afford and little profit made from it.
     
    Kina likes this.
  16. Joh

    Joh Inactivist

    Messages:
    720
    Likes:
    4,451
    Germany
    I don't know what to say. It's a little upsetting to hear that I personally damaged the healing abilities of my body by "diet, pharmaceuticals and other substances" and therefore it's my responsibility that homeopathy doesn't work for me. It just happens that I'm really into a organic lifestyle - only organic food, cosmetics, household products and even clothing and accessoires. I've been spending time outdoors in nature camping and hiking and traveling with a backpack since I'm a kid (even my sleeping bag is made from recycled PET bottles!). Before I got mono and all these infections I hardly ever took antibiotics, my mother was against unnecessary meds, so it was lemonjuice for headaches and wet wraps for fever for me. I'm only telling this because it goes against the theory that homeopathy didn't work for me because I damaged my body.

    I can assure you that MCS is regarded as nutters disease in Germany. It's often mentioned together with CFS and they both have the same level of (non-existing) credibility. It's great that you met some understanding people during your time in Germany but I guess you didn't try to get treatment or apply for disability benefits here.
     
  17. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,938
    Likes:
    1,467
    UK
  18. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,478
    Likes:
    7,571
    Which bit was common sense...I genuinely don't understand that bit? There's no need to be insulting.

    I was challenging the concept of screening tests for diet and environmental factors and the lack of specifics.

    If this was really important, an ethical homeopathy practitioner would presumably test their patients before wasting their money up front rather than offer excuses at the end of treatment. If they did that they would presumably have a higher success rate? I am doubting the validity of your argument for several reasons, mainly the evidence that it has any merit.

    Do you have any actual evidence to support your ideas?
     
  19. Joh

    Joh Inactivist

    Messages:
    720
    Likes:
    4,451
    Germany
    ME/CFS is also classified as organic disease by ICD10 in UK, US, Germany and all other WHO countries. So far that hasn't helped us. If doctors, researchers and the public would respect the ICD10 we wouldn't have PACE and GET and CBT for ME. Most people in this forum who can't get benefits or whose children are threatened to be taken away live in countries with ICD10 classifying ME as G-diagnosis.
     
    trishrhymes, Sea, barbc56 and 9 others like this.
  20. Mrs Sowester

    Mrs Sowester Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,032
    Likes:
    7,278
    So you're all better are you @brenda ? Cured by homeopathy?
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page