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SODASE TEST RESULT/manganese deficiency help.

Discussion in 'Diagnostic Guidelines and Laboratory Testing' started by justy, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi all i had this result back some time ago and recently started taking the Manganese supplement.

    "Antioxidant status: Superoxide dismutase
    The SODase result is very poor at 37% (>40%). The normal level is above 40% inhibition, but the normal range is very narrow and a small deviation from this represents a clinically significant deficiency. Further analysis of this enzyme shows that the Zn/Cu form is 292 (240-410 enzyme units), the Mn form is 104 (125-208) and the EC (extra-cellular) form (another Zn/Cu SODase but not part of the functional SODase test) is 20 (28 70). This result shows a severe deficiency in manganese
    The gene studies show that the gene for Zn/Cu-SODase is normal, the gene for Mn-SODase is partially blocked with low enzyme activity, and the gene for the EC-SODase is normal with low enzyme activity."


    Well, i dont really understand what this all means apart from i have a manganese deficiency.
    I started taking 4 drops daily (manganese chloride 5mg) the problem is when i take them my anxiety levels seem to go up i.e feling a bit stressed, nervous, shaky etc.
    Is this actually possible? does anyone know what might be causing this. It didnt seem possible to me, but i tried stopping and stating it a number of times and every time the same result
    Also does anyone know what low enzyme activity means?
    Much appreciated.
    Justy x
  2. rlc

    rlc Senior Member

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  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Justy, the use of manganese to treat CFS goes back to the 90s and maybe before. I investigated it in the late 90s, there was a website devoted to it, they also thought there was a mitochondrial problem. I have forgotten the name, and the site might not exist any more.

    Manganese is a toxic metal - we need very little. A deficiency is a real problem if you have it, but so is excess. You could have permanent damage from too much, you need to be under proper health monitoring for manganese. The small doses found in multiminerals are too small to be a problem, but direct dosing could be.

    The problem is you have little SOD in the mitochondria, and not enough elsewhere either. Some of this is probably due to oxidative stress. I wouldn't take manganese by itself, I would look for a health professional who is not clueless (a real problem in my experience) and try an antioxident regime to go with the manganese. In the mitochondria itself there are only two I think, someone please update me if I am missing some. The first is coenzyme Q10, the second is lipoic acid.

    The observation that the gene for Mn-SOD is partially blocked is a very big concern. Something is blocking it, something important to your health. Without knowing what that is you are in the dark. It only might be manganese. Personally I think its probably cytokines or related hormones, but this is only opinion - the science is not advanced enough for anyone to be sure.

    Bye,
    Alex
  4. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks rlc and Alex for your replies. I think i understand what you mean but i have to admit im struggling (im a humanitites gal!) I had the testing done with Dr.Myhill and she reccomeneded the dosage. She has also recommended CO Q10 (amongst many others) but i havnt started it yet, i am taking selenium and high dose vit c as well which has partiallyhelped. She thinks i have a clinically significant manganese deficiency - based on the findings i quoted above. I wasnt sure how she had extrapolated this to mean a manganese deficiency. She also found a selenium deficiency and a carnitine deficiency.

    @Alex - the bit about the Mn-SOD gene i dont really understand. Sorry to be a pain but could you explain as if i where a small child? why is this a very big concern?
    At least this points to more concrete evidence that its not just all in my head!
    Thank you so much for your input - its so appreciated.
  5. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

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    Have you done the DNA adduct tests justy?

    I had a low SODase and took mineral supplements and they did not help that much. What did help was getting rid of my nickel DNA adducts. JMH reckoned that my nickel DNA adducts were affecting the gene for the Mn SODase in me. Once I did a nickel chelation with l-methionine and got rid of my nickel DNA adducts my SODase shot up well into normal levels.

    I don't know what other things can affect the gene for Mn SODase.
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Carol - no have not had the DNA adducts done yet - was still deciding (due to cost) However i have been wondering about nickel as i have had a nickel allergy since i as a teenager - probably about the same time i had glandular fever, which i never really recovered from properly. I dont know if an allergy to nickel would cause this problem but my instinct tells me it could be related.
    I am confused about wether to try the chelation/detoxing first or do the methylation first, i know there is an order but cant remmber it.
    Thanks for the reply.
  7. carol

    carol

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    Acumen Lab in Tiverton Devon do the DNA adducts test at a cost of 95. Mine showed cetrazine stuck on my DNA at the gene point that deals with cortisol and aldosterone. It explained a lot! try to save up, it's worth it.
  8. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Carol, i have decided to have the translocator protein function test done instead at the moment.
    Cetirizine - thats an allergy medication isnt it? How did that get there, and more importantly if you find out whats stuck on what can you do about it?
  9. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, justy.

    Partial blocking of the Mn-SOD gene means that your cells will not be able to make enough of the manganese superoxide dismutase enzyme. This enzyme is needed by the mitochondria to convert superoxide (oxidizing free radicals that are generated in the normal metabolism of the mitochondria) into hydrogen peroxide. The hydrogen peroxide is then normally dealt with by glutathione, together with the glutathione peroxidase enzyme, and is converted into water. Without enough Mn-SOD, your cells will suffer from oxidative stress.

    Some of the genes in ME/CFS are blocked by what are called DNA adducts. These are things that bind to the DNA (which form the genes), and which do not belong there. The DNA adducts prevent the genes from being expressed properly. That means that their genetic code is not translated into producing the proteins that they code for, and in your case, one of these proteins is the Mn-SOD enzyme.

    The DNA adducts are toxins. Nickel is one that has been found in many cases. There are also several others that show up a lot, including a chemical used in permanent hair dyes.

    In my hypothesis, the reason for the presence of these toxins, acting as DNA adducts, is that glutathione depletion has caused the normal detoxication system in the body to become dysfunctional. As a result, toxins that are normally taken out routinely are now allowed to build up, and they "gum up the works" so to speak. The methylation treatments are designed to restore normal glutathione levels, among other benefits. More information is available at www.cfsresearch.org by clicking on CFS/M.E. and then on my name.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  10. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Thanks Rich, its really beginning to come together in my mind now.
    So grateful for your time x
  11. carol

    carol

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    Hi Justy. Your thread is helping me to understand one of my blood results, thanks. The Cetrizine that is blocking my gene is detergent/disinfectant, you are thinking of cetirizine. I was a Nurse and had to virtually bathe in the stuff for years. No idea how to get rid of it so if anyone can tell me I'll be ever so grateful.
  12. globalpilot

    globalpilot Senior Member

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    Carolwxyz99,
    I have the same DNA adduct (nickel) and the resulting weak manganese SOD. Did you notice any improvement in your energy production after getting the SOD normalized ?

    Regards, GP
  13. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Carol, i dont know enough about the metylation cycle treatment to know if this would help with eventually detoxing the cetrizine. Dr.Myhill recommends FAR infrared saunaing as well as reducing the overall toxic burden in the body. link here http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Detoxification_-_an_overview
    and info on FAR saunas http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Detoxing_-_Far_Infrared_Sauna_(FIRS)
  14. carol

    carol

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    Thanks Justy. The information is really helpful. A treatment I can enjoy!!!!!
  15. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

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    Yup I think I had a little energy increase after getting rid of the nickel and felt a bit better. But it is not my only problem - I've got lots of other ones too, such as I had borreliosis.

    Carol
  16. carolwxyz99

    carolwxyz99 Senior Member

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    Many people have got rid of their toxins by FIR saunas, so I would guess that would be a goode starting point. I don't know if there is a specific supplement you can take for cetrizine.

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