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SMP, low methylation, normal folate and mb12

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by xrunner, Feb 16, 2012.

  1. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    A few weeks ago I started the SMP but I can't say I have noticed any of the healing effects that others have experienced. The only things I have noticed is that on a relatively high dosage of the mb12 (5000mcg sublingual) I become overwhelmed by the need to nap. This is in contrast to a couple of years ago when the same mb12 would cause the opposite effects (anxiety, restlessnes, insomnia etc).
    The main change compared to then, is that I have had a few amalgams removed and may be some mercury is floating around (as well as Naet treatment for the supplements). I read that mb12 can interact with mercury so I stopped experimenting with that and I just take Hydroxy B12 2000mcg. In addition I take Thorne B complex (includes 200mcg folinic, 200mcg methylfolate).

    So my question is the following.
    I have a low methylation capacity (SAM/SAH= 4.3; SAM=220) but folate and mb12 are normal, albeit on the low side (5-CH3-TF=26; Mb12=116; levels with no supplementation) would the SMP raise methylation just by the addition of more of the folate and B12? or other action would be needed?
     
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Xrunner,

    Another signpost to healing was a change in waking and sleep patterns. When I was in the middle of the healing phase with mb12 after the strong excitatory period, perhaps a year into the process, I started getting very tired in the afternoon, naptime. That was a dramatic change becasue I hadn't felt tired in a sleepy way for almost 20 years. I had been able to discontinue the Provigil some months before as I was getting more and better sleep. I had sleep disorders. I would fall asleep at movies or at the table or sitting quietly. Being asleep was having my eyese closed, being awake was having them open. There wasn't any great difference in how I felt. I was always totally exhausted but never sleepy tired. After some months of the excitatory portion and a while of feeling pretty even keeled I noticed I get very sleepy starting in the afternoon. Over the next few months that progressed into the evening and turned out to be an integral part of my sleep normalizing. It was a dramatic difference while it happened. The difference between being asleep and awake got larger. After some years of pretty normal sleep, dreaming returned all at once the day I took my first dose of Metafolin. Others have reported that same return of dreaming. Returning to normal sleep patterns was an important part of healing. Getting quite sleepy was a signpost on the road of healing
     
  3. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    Hi Fred,
    thanks for sharing your experience. Not sure how you managed to get through the excitatory phase, I couldn't at all so I had to stop for a while.
    Are you suggesting I should stick to mb12 rather than the hydroxy?
    I'm just concerned about the mercury as I have removed seven amalgams so far and have another three to do...
    Not that I have experienced any problem in the process, if anything I feel slightly better but after a few bad past experiences with other treatments and having read of others' mercury nightmares, I'm naturally cautious.
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Runner,

    If persons here were exposed to mercury in excess it includes me. My father was a dentist, and mercury handling in the 50s was primative. I had some in a bottle in water that I played with. His clothing was contaminated. I had cavities from my braces that were filled with amalgams and so on. The question comes down to whether mb12 actually does interact with mercury and the exact effects. Cutler is dubious that it reacts much if at all. He indicates it would be in mcg quantites if it does. If it does react in mcg quantities that could account for 80% of mercury symptoms being exactly coincident with b12 deficiency symptoms. One microgram of mercury can destroy the effectiveness of 7mcg of mb12. That is an excellent daily intake from meat and animal based foods. If that much is destroyed daily then a person would slowly become deficient, breaking the methylation cycle and developing a host of diseases. Basically what that means is that 1mg of mercury, a tiny amount can destroy all the b12 a person has in their body over time and all the b12 a person is likely to take in over a number of years. So if the mercury is destroyng mb12 slowly, in mcg quantity, that is enough to cause deficiency and methylation block thereby. But that is 3 to 4 orders of magintude less than people are talking about to have toxic effects. Dental procedures wherein nitrous oxide is used can cause an acute mb12 deficiency in the brain also by destroying mb12. This acute mb12 deficiency can make a person very sick very quickly. The mercury itself, once it has destroyed the mb12 is then vulnerable to being removed from the body by the liver in the bile at a 1% per day rate, which is a 71 day serum half life.

    As far as getting through the excitatory phase, I had spent 17 years as a smear on the floor, energy wise. It made sense to me that coming up a tiny fraction would feel relatively huge. And it did. To me it was great. I had given up hope of actually finding anything that could or would work. Suddenly where was this reaction that screamed "I'M WORKING". It was success. It was proof to me that I had found the right item, that the problem I had solved in 1978 before my life went down the tubes by identifying that the symptoms I had were b12 deficiency symptoms and that cyancbl was NOT the real b12. Cyanocbl did virtutally nothing. Methylb12 was changing my life. I was totally thrilled. I have never understood why so many are so miserable with having one of the most overwhelming terrible symptoms reveresed. I had studied psychology in school. I had learned about perceived size of sensory changes. So I knew that going from 0.01% energy to 1% energy would be a huge perceived change, far larger than going from 25% to 100% would be. Differences are perceived by percentage of differences. A just noticable difference is 1/3 of a doubling such as brighness or sweetness or loudness etc. A change of 10x (0.5 to 5) is HUGE. A change from 25% to 100%, a mere tripling is a very modest change. So that first change, getting up off the floor is the biggest change that can occur and it was going to seem gigantic. It was. Energy changing from 0.01% to 1% is a 100x change. It isn't healed and is still very sick, but perceptually it would never be duplicated again. I considered a sizable change in perception, not nearly as big as it appeared. After a while the "newness" fades and it seems like hardly any advance is made. Both are correct. A very huge perceptual change can be a very small real change.
     
  5. anniekim

    anniekim Senior Member

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    Hi Xrunner, sorry for my ignorance but which tests give you the above results? What is sam/sah etc? Many thanks in advance
     
  6. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Freddd

    I played with mercury as well as being hospitalised at 5 months with mercury poisoning from teething powders. Now I have 2 amalgams and thinking maybe I should get themout before doing the meth protocol. I have been scared to do it as I am so sick - Lyme on top of it - but maybe I will never recover now at 61 unless I get them out. What do you think?
     
  7. xrunner

    xrunner Senior Member

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    The methylation panel by the ELN. That's the ratio of S-Adenosylmethionine to S-Adenosylhomocusteine. According to Rich anything below 4.5 points to low methylation capacity, also a low SAM points to that.
     
  8. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Brenda,

    Honestly I don't think that they are a problem becasue of the tiny amount that may be invloved. Selenium would look desireable to combine with it and make it inert. Mb12 is needed to replace the mb12 hypothetically inactivated my tiny amounts of mercury. I think getting methylation turned on and the mercury removed via the liver in the normal fashion will produce the most likely positive changes. Wild horses couldn't have stopped me from trying the mb12 once I learned about it. Fortunately we don't give kids teething powders with mercury any more. I'm 64. If you start the active b12 protocol you might be substantially recovered in a year and ready to rebuild your body. If you don't start it and do all sorts of other things, none of them actually have the ability to cause that amount or kind of healing except in very rare cases. Mostly they are side issues. It's the only option that appears to have a substantially greater than 1% probability of you being significantly recovered in a year. There are hundreds of messed up biochemical reactions in the body as a result of the messed up b12/folate situation. Running down all of those individually can't be done and doesn't heal. Taking care of the underlying situation may allow these hundreds of things to correct, narrowing the field down to the things that don't respond. Now that low potassium and low folate can be recogized and corrected the path is easier.
     
  9. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    Hi Freddd

    Thanks. I am taking 200mg selenium, since increasing it from 100mg after rydra`s advice and have ordered the methylation supplements from iherb. It feels right somehow to go ahead in fixing the methylation first as I have significantly improved once with the amalgams in place and that was after being bitten when I was seriously ill and I did the macrobiotic diet. Afer a few months on it I went into a discharge as they call it or a herx and for a few days a whole pile of gunk was dicharged from my arm pits and after that my health went up a whole notch and I felt so much better but could not stick to the diet maybe there was not enough animal protein for me long term I did crave it more and more but I felt better for a while so clean inside. So I guess that it is possible to improve with the methylation protocol. I did get a definite strong reaction last time I took a fair amount of mb12. So, potassium at the ready!

    One thing that makes me wonder about autism, is that I had a large dose of mercury at a very young age, and had immune and endo problems since but was not autistic as such though I was withdrawn socially but I passed the exam at age 11 to go to grammar school and functioned almost normally when I wasn`t sick that is.
    Brenda
     
  10. brenda

    brenda Senior Member

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    From

    http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dailys/02/Sep02/091602/80027dde.pdf



    High levels of Vit B12 in the system also have
    been found to result in increased methyl mercury concentrations in the liver and brain(51). Methyl
    mercury is 10 times more potent in causing genetic damage than any other known chemical (Ramel,
    in(35)), and also crosses the blood-brain barrier readily. Once mercury vapor or methyl mercury are
    converted to inorganic mercury in cells or the brain, the mercury does not readily cross cell membranes
    or the blood-brain barrier.


    Freddd what do you think of this?

    35 Huggins HA, Levy,TE, Uniformed Consent: the hidden dangers in dental care, 1999, Hampton Roads Publishing
    Company Inc; & Hal Huggins, Its All in Your Head, 1997; & Center for Progressive Medicine, 1999,
    http://www.hugnet.com

    51 Heintze et al,Methylation of Mercury from dental amalgam and mercuric chloride by oral
    Streptococci.,Scan. J. Dent. Res. 1983,9 1:150-l 52: & Rowland, Grasso, Davies The Methylafon of Mercuric
    Chloride by Human Intestinal Bacteria. Experientia. Base1 1975 ,3 1: 1064-1065; & M.K.Hamdy et al,
    Formation of methyl mercury by bacteria, App Microbial, 1975, Sept.; & W.Forth, Toxikologie von
    Quecksilberverbindungen, in Quecksilber in der Umwelt-Hearing zur Amalgamprolematik, Niedersachsisches
    Umwehministerium, 199 1.
     

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