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Slow motility issues

Discussion in 'Gastrointestinal and Urinary' started by JoanDublin, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    Hi everyone,
    For anyone that remembers me my 13 yr old is diagnosed with Post Viral Illness along with intractable constipation. Basically since he became ill 15 months ago he has been unable to defecate by himself and needs daily enemas and/or Peristeen to be able to poo. As you can imagine this has had a dreadful impact on his young life and he is in constant pain with it.

    Anyway, my reason for this thread is to ask your advice on motility/transit issues through the digestive system. His doctors here in Ireland haven't done any test of this nature but I carried out my own 'home' test using corn. It took 224 hours for the corn to eventually reappear which seems to be an extraordinarily long time to me.

    I am currently in the process of trying to find an expert in the UK, Europe or, last resort, USA who might be able to help him but I will put a separate post in the relevant forum.

    In the meantime I just wanted your opinion on this transit time. Do you think it is of any significance or is it something one would expect given the state his poor digestive system must be in after 15 months of this?
  2. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I always had constipation as long as the flareups lasted. It is gone now but it took years to accomplish that with a immunemodulator. I would not reccoment that for a child but you could try Benzydaminehydrochloride cream. Put it on his belly where the colon is. It might lessen the pain.
    JoanDublin likes this.
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    In one DVD video I have of a presentation give by Dr John Chia, he talks of an ME/CFS patient who had an enteroviral infection which completely halted all movement in the intestines.

    This makes me think that the enterovirus infection may be affecting the nerve supply to the muscles of the intestine which are responsible for peristalsis — the muscular contractions that push the intestinal contents through the intestines.

    It is actually the parasympathetic nervous system / vagus nerve that is wired into the muscles around the intestinal canal that produce peristalsis.


    Have you ever looked into the herbal ME/CFS treatment oxymatrine that Chia uses? This may help to reduce any enterovirus in the intestines.


    Some supplements that promote peristalsis, and thus relieve constipation, are give here:

    Constipation - 5 - Beneficial Bacteria , Peristalsis, Fructooligosaccharides - Life Extension Health Concern
    helen1 likes this.
  4. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    Thank you Hip! I have long thought that the problem is with peristalsis but no one here in Ireland seems to be listening to me! This reply is the closest thing to what I suspect might be happening that I've heard in 15 months! I wonder is that DVD still available? I will try and look it up online. Thank you very much. You have given me an avenue to explore that I had no information on before. I will get back to you and let you know how I got on!
  5. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I have no doubt the vagus nerve is involved.
    JoanDublin likes this.
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You can view this loss of movement in the bowel that Dr Chia talked about on the video here at timecode 21:33, though Dr Chia did not say much about it, other than all transit in the bowel had completely stopped.

    Dr Chia talks about the oxymatrine treatment in this video at timecode 31:25.
    end and dannybex like this.
  7. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    Thank you very much for those links. I really do appreciate the time and effort you put in for me. I think I will write to Dr. Chia and ask him if he would review my son's medical history for me and give me an opinion. I know it sounds cheeky but I've nothing left to lose!
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I would try the high dose vitamin C and/or magnesium treatment mentioned in the above link.

    For example, you might use a dose of say 800 mg of magnesium daily. High dose magnesium is good for ME/CFS anyway, so this will be generally beneficial, but may also help promote peristalsis.

    Regarding oxymatrine: many patients buy oxymatrine online themselves, and try then it themselves. There is plenty of info about it on this forum.
  9. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    I have him on Vitamin C but not magnesium so I will look into that thanks. Is it safe to just give him oxymatrine without medical supervision do you know
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Vit C and magnesium in high doses causes evacuation of the bowels, and often diarrhea. When I take high doses of these myself, then I get diarrhea. Magnesium in the form of Milk of Magnesia is of course well known to causes evacuation of the bowel.

    Oxymatrine is a herbal extract that you can buy without prescription. Many people try it without any supervision, myself included. Unfortunately it did not work for me, but only the lucky 25% of patients seem to respond well to it (though around 52% will get some response).

    You have to start slowly with 200 or 300 mg of oxymatrine a day to begin with, and then a week later go up to 400 mg, and then a week later 600 mg. After about 6 weeks or so on oxymatrine, patients may start to get a fever, or have temporary worsening of their ME/CFS symptoms, and when this happens, it is a sign that oxymatrine is kicking in, because a few days later the fever clears, and the ME/CFS is much improved thereafter (providing you keep taking oxymatrine).

    If you search this site, you'll find more info:

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=oxymatrine site:phoenixrising.me
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
    JoanDublin likes this.
  11. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    A NHS UK Gastroenterologist I saw in London knew about slow motility. They have a test whereby they get you to swallow something and then time how long it takes to come out. Post code lottery of course on being able to see the doctor who actually knows about this. This particular Gastro had left the hospital when I went back to see him.

    What helps me with this problem is Betaine HCL tablets. When I first took them (and up to 5 with each meal) my bowel problems calmed down and my stomach shrank and. food began to pass trough my system more quickly and come out the other side looking normal. Sorry if TMI.

    Probiotic yoghurts also helped me a lot in the same way, in the first 10 years of the disease.

    Things to avoid were antidepressants and codeine painkillers which both made this problem much, much worse.
    Hip likes this.
  12. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    Hi, I not too long ago responded to your other post on you son (whereever that post is). I had the same issue (couldnt go at all to the loo without STRONG enemas.. I believe my peristalisis wasnt workng at all).

    Warning graphic.. The situation ended up causing a complication and making my bowel prolapse as faeces would build up but I couldnt clear it without doing it manually with my fingers and using them to push on the bowel throu my vagina wall to push things throu and out (this was before I went to stronger enemas..glycerine ones had no affect on my bowel).. The prolapse which occured due to the constipation.. could be seen about to come right out of my vagina.. fortunately you have a son! so he probably dont need to worry about this prolapse complication. I did a long post to you on your other thread and are wondering if you ever saw it?

    High dose C, probotics, large doses over the maximum dose of senna and a ton of other things had no effect at all on my bowels even when I was doing a lot of different things like that in combo... its like they werent just strong enough to stimulate my bowel peristalisis. Anyway, I provided a possible help for this in the other post as there was one thing which finally helped me and improved my situation (my bowel after not working for quite a while, now in fact is working again) and want to make sure you've seen that other post. If your sons bowel is as bad as mine was, it may be the only thing which may help.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  13. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    Hi there. Yes I had missed your response on the other thread 'intractable constipation' but I found it now and have replied. Thanks a million for the info and for sharing your experiences. It's a dreadful complication to have isn't it? :( delighted to hear things are much better for you now. Fingers crossed it will work for my young lad as well
  14. donovank730

    donovank730

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    low dose (50mg) erythromycin is used as an intestinal prokenetic so you can look into that
  15. JoanDublin

    JoanDublin Senior Member

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    Thank you. Will do!
  16. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Other possible things to consider might be a low-dose ox bile supplement (low bile output will definitely cause constipation and bile will help reverse that), and also there's an herb called Terminalia chebula (also known as 'haritaki') which is beneficial in various forms of digestive issues. It actually breaks up biofilms that sometimes form around bacterial, viral or fungal infections.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminalia_chebula

    I have slow motility as well, but more in my stomach, rather than lower in the gut. Hope you can find some relief for your son…that is an incredibly long transit time!
    JoanDublin likes this.

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