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Sleeping

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Spinney Lainey, Dec 8, 2013.

  1. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    So, I've on amitriptyline for 8 years and have kept trying to taper and up until now, have always ended up going back up because I end up getting ill but now am absolutely determined to come off it for several reasons - the main ones being the constant hunger, weight gain and the fact that it's probably not helping me recover.

    Any suggestions for what I can use to help while I'm tapering?

    Any recommendations for melatonin/valerian that actually works? Or any other herbal supplements that work?
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    I think you should find something that helps you sleep before you start to taper. For me, nothing OTC works at all. The only thing that I have ever been able to take is Trazodone.

    Over the years I've tried so many things I've lost track. What I'm doing is asking my doctor for 2 different RX's when I see her and see how it goes. Most recently it was tizanadine which is a no and seroquel which drugged me too much.
    It's all trial and error for what works without drugging us out or having other problems. I know for me, without some kind of medication I absolutely will not sleep.

    The question is, can you sleep without meds or not? Then go from there.
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I suggest talking to your doc but u might be able to cross straight over to an equivilent dose of doxepine, although it can have similar side effect profile as amtitriptyline but then again it might not be an issue either??
  4. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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  5. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    How about nortriptyline if amitriptyline worked well for you? I know a lady who started have memory issues after being on amitriptyline for a while, she is doing much better on nortriptyline. FYI

    GG
    heapsreal likes this.
  6. redrachel76

    redrachel76 Senior Member

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    I once tried to
    If you are suffering so much that you have to end up going back up, it is because you have tapered too fast.
    Can you taper in smaller doses more gradually?
    If there is no way to do that, then I wonder if you could move to a similar tablet that is easier to cut and available in smaller doses for tapering.

    I could not taper my clonazepam because I could not cut the tablet into the 10 peices needed to taper. (Benzos should be tapersd 10% at a time.), so I moved onto the equivalent dose of valium and tapered down from that. Valium is available in smaller doses than Clonezapam.
    Maybe it is possible to try the same principle with amytrip?
    Have you done a good search for drug tapering forums on the net?
    It's even worth looking searching hard at the "other drugs" section of some Benzo forums too
    (I found this webpage when I looked although it might be a scam for all I know.)
    http://www.pointofreturn.com/amitriptyline_withdrawal.html

    I would also like to hear of any valerian/melatonin supplements that help. I just got off clonezapm and although I feel O.K I would like sleep aid for for the odd difficult nights that is less harsh and addictive than Clonex was.
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Amitriptyline and doxepine are generally equal in dosage strength. Sometimes a cross taper will be use.
    Eg if on 100mg amity then doc could put u on 75mg amitrp and 25mg of doxepine and every week or two take 25mg off amitrp and add 25mg doxepine etc etc. some find amitriptyline more sedating then doxepine and vice versa. For me I found doxepine more sedating.
    Spinney Lainey likes this.
  8. caledonia

    caledonia

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    Sleep problems are mainly neurotransmitter problems, although I've also found magnesium and B12 playing a role.

    You can take GABA or theanine to help GABA/glutamate balance. GABA is calming, while glutamate is stimulating, which cause that tired but wired feeling. And also avoid MSG and the Big Four glutamate foods tomatoes, peas, mushrooms and Parmesan cheese. MSG is in so much processed food under hidden names, that I find it easier just to avoid all processed food, sauces and spice mixes.

    Then you can take 5htp for serotonin and melatonin for melatonin - those two are specifically for sleep. I'm not sure if the 5htp would be contraindicated for the med you're on or not. It is contraindicated for SSRI's/SNRI's.

    Then if you're low in magnesium you may have restless legs waking you up all night long. So you can take some magnesium for that.

    Then I have this thing that's like a central sleep apnea where I stop breathing and wake up with a racing, pounding heartbeat - B12 is helping that.

    If you're getting withdrawal/rebound symptoms from the med, you may have to taper much slower. You may have to go as slow as 10% of the previous dose every 3-6 weeks. This gives your brain time to adjust neurotransmitter levels. Note that 10% of the previous dose is not the same as 10% of the original dose. See the Paxil Progress forum for more info.

    My sleep problems are resolving nicely with methylation treatment. I don't need to take anything specifically for sleep any more.
  9. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Melatonin sublingual of Douglas Labs have "cured" my and the poster Sparrow sleep onset insomnia. I still wake up an average of 4 times and sleep is still unrefreshing... I also get a lot of detailed dreams now. Some of them are actually pretty stupid. I am not so sure of how I feel about now being conscious of these dreams. Am I really that dumb to dream these things? lol But other dreams are fascinating.

    Of course fixing methylation and other causes of bad sleep like hormones will do much more than taking melatonin but is good for the meantime.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  10. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Have you had a sleep study? When some of my sleep difficulties were resolved as much as possible, I felt better, relative speaking. Sleep disruption make our symptoms worse.

    I found Trazodone helpful, but have been off of it since the above were diagnosed.

    Good luck.
  11. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    Well done! I have a friend on that stuff. You did well! Actually, I've been feeling quite a lot better recently and the tapering has been going better, so am thinking just to stick to that - maybe cutting down by 1/4 tablet every three weeks or so but I've got a couple of weeks over Xmas where I don't have to do anything, so am thinking about even trying to cut down by 1/2 a tablet and just deal with the withdrawals with copious amounts of codeine and anti-sickness tablets. I'm so sick of being on it. I just want to be off it now!
  12. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    What did the sleep study entail?
  13. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Senior Member

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    @Spinney Lainey I used the titration method to get off 1 mg klonopin a few years ago. It took me 4 months and that was rushing it. The first 2 months were ok but from the 2nd month on for a year I only slept about 2 hours a night.

    I think it would be a huge mistake to go down as much as you say you want to since dry cutting is hard enough as it is. You could be in withdrawal for much longer than you think and it could cause worse problems. The closer you get to the end the worse it gets with blood levels dropping.

    I strongly advise you not to do it and just keep up with the taper. Faster is not better and could really cause problems for you.
  14. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    Thanks for your input. Just looked up about the other meds people are recommending on here and the side effects sound even worse than amitriptyline, if that's possible! So guess it would possibly be like jumping from the fire into the flames. Think I'll just stick with the taper and maybe try the sublingual melatonin suggested plus 5htp, occassionally when I first start each reduction and once I'm lower doses of amitriptyline. What's the methylation people are talking of? @caledonia 's recommendation of GABA things sound like they're worth a go, too. I'm also finding the main reason for sleeplessness is getting up too late, so I'm just trying to be really disciplined about my sleep patterns.
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
  15. redrachel76

    redrachel76 Senior Member

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    Thank you :)
    Don't speed up your taper. Either keep it at 1/4 of a tablet or try to find a way that makes it more gradual.
  16. allyann

    allyann Senior Member

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    My sleep study involved being hooked up to a monitor where they measured EEG waves etc. I have Cyclic Alternating Pattern meaning I have EEG activity periodically within non-REM sleep. I only enter REM sleep for 20 seconds at a time. I take Gabapentin to help me sleep better
  17. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    What's methylation all about?
  18. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    @caledonia - am thinking of buying GABA. Can you recommend any make?
  19. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    See the information below caledonia´s post.
  20. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    Still not sure what methylation is........sorry if I'm being dense.....

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