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Sleep quality and the treatment of intestinal microbiota imbalance in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome...

M Paine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Has it helped you a lot? It´s the thing that has made the biggest difference (positive difference, that is) for me so far.

Thankfully I don't really suffer too much from IBS like symptoms, so I have not felt the need to go on a low FODMAP diet.

When you say it has helped you, did you mean that it helped your IBS symptoms? Or did it also help with some of the neurological symptoms, and/or sleep problems?



I experience many of the gut-brain axis symptoms they list in the paper, such as..

sleep, mood and cognitive function

neurologic dysfunctions (inability to concentrate, excessive irritability, confusion, impaired motor coordination


At this point, I have not seen a correlation between FODMAPs and the strains of bacteria associated with this pathology mentioned in this paper. I'm no expert, and I'm interested if anyone knows more. I'm really interested to know more about what foods promote the strains mentioned (prebiotics), IE which foods to avoid
 
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MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
At this point, I have not seen a correlation between FODMAPs and the strains of bacteria associated with this pathology mentioned in this paper. I'm no expert, and I'm interested if anyone knows more. I'm really interested to know more about what foods promote the strains mentioned (prebiotics), IE which foods to avoid

Prebiotics are generally understood to be foods that promote well-being and good gut flora - is that what you meant?

There are a lot of threads on good and bad foods for gut flora (we have asked for a 'food' sub-forum but it was deemed unnecessary or unfeasible for some reason), and it probably varies quite a lot between people too. Also, people (including myself) sometimes find that a previously-tolerated food is no longer tolerated, or that the amount of a certain food that we can tolerate varies over time.
 

M Paine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
Prebiotics are generally understood to be foods that promote well-being and good gut flora - is that what you meant?

There's a good write up on Prebiotics and the usage of the term here (Section 1.2) -> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3705355/

Because the classification of prebiotics is focused on the 'good' bacteria, usually lactobacilli and bifidobacteria, the measure of prebiotic effect is applied by looking at these desirable strains, and testing if the oligosaccharide being fermented is selective to them.

Of course, oligosaccharides are not selective to a single strain, there could be other populations that benefit, but prebiotic index is not accounting for them. Thus, prebiotics can be selective for other strains also.


http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/3/830S.full

The current most popular targets for prebiotic use are lactobacilli and bifidobacteria. This is largely based on their success in the probiotic area. However, as our knowledge of the gut flora diversity improves (through using the molecular procedures described earlier), it may become apparent that other microorganisms should be fortified through their use. One example may be theClostridium coccoides–Eubacterium rectale cluster that includes bacteria producing butyric acid, a metabolite seen as beneficial for gut functionality and potentially protective against bowel cancer (38). The likelihood of other bacteria (including still unknown genera) also being targets for a prebiotic effect must be put in perspective with our increasing understanding (thanks to new molecular methodologies) of the bacterial diversity in the gut microflora. Indeed, the more we identify and characterize the bacterial genera, species, and even strains that compose the intestinal microflora, the more we will be in a position to describe, both qualitatively and quantitatively, changes in that composition and, consequently, to understand how the myriads of bacterial cells in the intestine interact and how they contribute to and modulate intestinal (especially colonic) physiology. Prebiotics will then become unique tools to create, both in experimental animals and in humans, colonic microflora with “controlled” compositions that will then be correlated with specific physiological conditions. But data are still too preliminary to speculate on these perspectives.

Prebiotics are currently in their infancy, even though the definition and probiotic index of a oligosaccharides might be thought of as beneficial now, as we understand more about the microbiome, things may be reclassified in the future. Another point to note, is that prebiotics are measured in their effect on healthy subjects, not those suffering from immune disorders. They could be good for those people, and bad for others.

It was confusing of me to use the term prebiotic when referring to them as a possible food source for 'bad' bacteria as they relate to CFS/ME. What turns out to be bad for CFS patients could be things that score quite badly on the prebiotic index as well as those that score highly.
 
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Messages
88
Location
Canada Niagara Falls
My Immunologist Recommended this Book to me called Brain Maker Author is a Neurologist. This Book relates to what is being talked about in this thread. I'm up to page 98 so I haven't drawn total conclusions on the whole book. He talks about fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in an early chapter. Maybe this might help you with the information needed to get a healthier Gut/Biome.
 

M Paine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
My Immunologist Recommended this Book to me called Brain Maker Author is a Neurologist. This Book relates to what is being talked about in this thread. I'm up to page 98 so I haven't drawn total conclusions on the whole book. He talks about fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in an early chapter. Maybe this might help you with the information needed to get a healthier Gut/Biome.


Thank you. This seems worthy of it's own post in the general treatment section. Recommendations from cfs experts and immunologists are usually pretty on point.
 

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,650
Sorry M Paine, I didn´t see your question (the alert didn´t work again). Yes, my disease seems to be gut driven, so the FODMAP diet has a positive effect on many of my other symptoms, such as frequent awakenings (I also take Trazadone, but this alone is not enough to get a decent-ish nights sleep), lactic acid feeling, and stabbing pains.

I should point out that Yersinia Enterocolitica was the trigger for my illness, so the fact that my illness seems to be gut-driven isn´t too surprising.

I think Paleo is also important - some foods (such as peppers) that are okay according to FODMAP also seem to mess me up.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Sorry M Paine, I didn´t see your question (the alert didn´t work again). Yes, my disease seems to be gut driven, so the FODMAP diet has a positive effect on many of my other symptoms, such as frequent awakenings (I also take Trazadone, but this alone is not enough to get a decent-ish nights sleep), lactic acid feeling, and stabbing pains.

I should point out that Yersinia Enterocolitica was the trigger for my illness, so the fact that my illness seems to be gut-driven isn´t too surprising.

I think Paleo is also important - some foods (such as peppers) that are okay according to FODMAP also seem to mess me up.
Peppers are in the nightshade family, as are tomatoes, aubergines and potatoes, which some people apparently react to, although there doesn't seem to be much research on this in humans.
 

msf

Senior Member
Messages
3,650
I don´t have a problem with potatoes - it´s one of my staples. I think this is because (from what I´ve read), the nasty stuff is in the skin, which I don´t eat. Paleo is also at least ambivalent about rice, but I couldn´t live without it!
 

M Paine

Senior Member
Messages
341
Location
Auckland, New Zealand
I should point out that Yersinia Enterocolitica was the trigger for my illness, so the fact that my illness seems to be gut-driven isn´t too surprising.

Ah yes, I'm sorry to hear that. I often say to people that I'm glad I'm not in the enterovirus camp because of the common IBS symptoms that follow in the case of having CFS.

As someone without IBS, I can definitely correlate certain foods with sleeplessness. Or of course, overeating, which is probably another mechanism.

I also find that some foods put me to sleep, and help me sleep more deeply.

It would seem that diet plays a massive role in health and wellbeing, with or without pathogenic microbial infection of the gut
 
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