Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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sinusitis/ leukotriene modifiers

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by heapsreal, Dec 10, 2012.

  1. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Anyone had any experience with these??

    From googling it looks like they are mainly used for allergic causes of asthma but have seen it mentioned for chronic sinusitis. Im thinking even if sinusitis is infection related that these drugs may help as they help reduce excess fluid and mucus.

    One site i read said that no matter what the cause of sinusitis, that it comes down to a drainage issue, so if its fungal, bacterial, viral or allergic issues you would think anything that helps drainage and reduce congestion in sinuses would help, leukotrienes seem to get more at the problem then say antihistamines or meds like sudafed etc.
    http://www.webmd.com/allergies/leukotriene
     
  2. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Ok, I have the worst allergies known to man...8 boxes of kleenex a day during allergy seasons, nose runs every 10 seconds (cannot conduct my life), face and eyes swell up so I cannot see (can't drive), etc. Also there is no drug on the face of the earth that works against it for me except CORTIZONE or TOPICAL CORTIZONE (FLONASE). Allergists always say I have sinusitis, but, perhaps due to vitamins I take, I always recover 3 days after the allergen is removed (so if it was sinusitis I kick it's butt in 3 days).

    So your article lists montelukast and says it works similar to Claritin, and Claritin does not work for me at all. And anyway, I ask you why you would want to resort to a drug vs. healthy means? (Ok, I know that Flonase is superior to healthy means, but Flonase stopped working for me when I turned 50 so I have had to devise healthy means and they are pretty good but not perfect. The problem with healthy means is primarily with keeping a potent dose in your system at all times, since natural allergy suppression fades as the dose is metabolized and cleared from your system so you have to keep taking more and inbetween you have some percent of symptoms).

    Natural strategies that work:
    • Omega-3 9g/day BEFORE allergen exposure (FIRST thing in the morning). This is a trick that Dr. Barry Sears (PhD, lipid science, author Omega-RX Zone) came up with to USE UP the enzymes required to digest non-omega-3 fats so that inflammatory cytokines CANNOT BE PRODUCED. Once they are produced, this strategy does nothing for you, so if you have any pollen already in your head (such as if you are allergic to something in your house that you cannot get away from, this strategy won't work until you get that out of your system (for me 3 days) and it will always result in some low level inflammatory cytokines as you will inhale some allergen before your daily dose. However it allows one to breath and only have to blow your nose once an hour or so, which is tolerable. If you can take it before all allergen exposure, it works 100%.
    • Nettle (New Chapter, Histamine Take Care), however it takes me many more lozenges than the dosing suggests...I have to carry it with me and retake it when I start to sniff...I take something on the order of 10 lozenges/day. The caution is that nettle is supposed to raise insulin, thus lower blood sugar, thus make you eat more and gain weight. Guggul is supposed to lower insulin so it is possible that taking both together in some ratio (?) could cancel out the negative effect of nettle. In someone with lesser allergies, potentially the package dosing instructions may work, but it needs to be carried with you because it WILL NOT last all day without redosing
    • Spirulina - 21 capsules. I read this would work, tried it and it does work, however cannot stand to take 21 spirulina caps/day so I cannot give more info on how well it works (how long it lasts, etc). It lasts longer, therefore works better, than nettle. Other than that I cannot recall.
    NOTES ON SINUSITIS, INFECTIONS, ANDALLERGIES:

    Any condition that invokes the immune system (which INCLUDES allergies) REQUIRES anti-oxidants because the immune system works by "firing" hydrogen peroxide (an oxidant) at dead and dying cells and invading microorganisms, to kill them. The problem is that hydrogen peroxide (H2O2) "ricochets" off its target onto healthy tissue, damaging it also. In order to help the immune system kill ONLY the bad stuff with lazerlike precision, you MUST take antioxidants to preserve healthy tissue. This is why I have taken 1g d-alpha-tocopherol / day and 2 g. C / day since I was 20 years old (and 600mg / day E and 500mg / day C as a child). I believe that my allergies put an "olympic sized" strain on my body that I need serious protection from.

    SAFETY NOTES:
    • Recently studies say that d-alpha-tocopherol can block gamma-tocopherol and you need to supplement both or be prone to cancer. I did not do this for 30 years and no cancer (but that is ME with my wide supplementation regime).
    • An additional note is that anyone taking high dose Vitamin C like I do needs to take it as mineral ascorbates or it will be deleterious to your ph. Vitamin C is a misnomer...the body will steal calcium from your bones to de-acidify it if you do not take it as mineral ascorbates, the form which is the real vitamin (the form the body actually uses).
    • Current studies are implicating taking > 500mg C / day as causing kidney stones (sometimes leading to lifelong dialysis). I believe it is some other deficiency IN CONCERT with high dose C that does it as it has never been a problem for me. But for those of you (MOST of YOU it seems?) who are attempting to apply a shotgun approach to health - only picking and choosing which nutrients to take instead of taking a wide assortment of protective nutrients, it may be likely that you have whatever deficiency causes C to be a problem. Rand56 sent me an article that stated that it is a deficiency in citrate that causes kidney stones. I have not had time to investigate that yet, but it would explain a potential reason why I feel subtly better taking calcium citrate (less absorbable) than calcium asporatate (more absobable). I always buy citrate forms of calcium and magnesium in multiples and mineral supplements.
    I also have taken zinc all my life, in the past quite high dose as I convinced myself I needed it. It turns out that airway allergies destroy mucous membranes and it takes 75mg zinc/day to rebuild them. I do not want to mis-inform : I am finding that it also takes more protein than I normally consume and idk how much but I have to boost my protein consumption AS WELL during allergy season. When I take 75mg of zinc I can breathe and anything less, I cannot. I have discovered that I have low level allergies all year round (cat/dog hair, dust, etc) and I am oblivious (blow my nose 1/day or just clear my throat a lot) as long as I take some daily dose of zinc. When I stopped taking zinc at 50 (due to became short of copper) I developed new allergies I had never had before, such as to COLD, DRY AIR - meaning I was nonfunctional in winter also. I am now taking 30mg zinc/day and I find if I skip it even one day I start blowing my nose once every 10 minutes, enough to make me wonder if I am catching something as it will be out of season for allergies. So I think 30mg / day is about right for me...it certainly is not much higher than what I need, but more likely borderline for me.

    I attempt to take 5mg copper/day to prevent copper deficiency, and not with the zinc. I do not believe that there is a zinc:copper ratio. From what I have been able to determine, allergies use up zinc and not copper, so it becomes necessary to resupply the zinc but not the copper. I note that I have slow wound healing if I do not take 5mg copper (w/o zinc or calcium). When I take 5mg copper, wounds heal noticeably - more like when I was young...not quite overnight, but maybe over 2 nights. I often miss taking my copper because of the need to take apart from zinc, etc, so I cannot swear that 5mg/day is needed every day. copper is a poison so I advise anyone to be aware that if you take zinc you need to take copper in some dose that you need to study and determine for yourself.
     
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  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Hi triffid,

    when it comes to natural treatments and anti-oxidants, i have bought enough from iherb to pay off the owners house i think. My sinus issues are not from allergies but from bacterial infection. I take abx, use steriod nasal sprays, saline nasal sprays, atrovent, antihistamines etc. Im looking into this treatment leukotrenes basically to keep things flowing and remove congestion from the sinuses(frontal sinuses). I have tried or still use everything u have mentioned which is why im looking into other things. even iv vit c was only of temporary help. SO the drugs versus healthy means has been tried so now its drugs versus avoiding possible surgery for sinusitis.

    Your sinusitis sounds very severe, has your doc mentioned surgical option or have u had sinus surgery to clean out everything ie congestion, biofilms, polyps?? I have read that surgery helps and does improve things long term but its not a cure and sinusitis generally continues to a lesser degree.

    cheers!!
     
  4. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Um. Heaps, I hate to tell you but the things I list also work for colds - for any nasal congestion of any kind. Did you actually try 9 GRAMS omega-3? (9 one gram pills). Because scientifically that works. If you take that much omega-3 you will not be able to make inflammatory cytokines.

    For colds I need a higher dose zinc - for me it is 150mg per day. I only take the amount of zinc necessary to be able to breath again (lowest dose possible).

    SURGERY for ALLERGIES?!!! That's just crazy talk. There is nothing surgical that is going to protect every cell of my body from the things they are allergic to. Allergies are systemic and not caused by polyps, biofilms, or unusual sinus shapes or anything. They are about cytokine production. Taint no surgery that can prevent all the cells of your body from producing cytokines. It is not me looking for a cure. I have found what works and am just trying to let others learn from what I have found. (After all it took me 40 years to find a single drug that would work for me and 10 more years to find a natural method that would work for me, so I know it's not easy to find things that work if you have serious allergies. There are many things that work for mild allergies, but I find it odd that people with mild allergies bother to take drugs with side-effects rather than just deal with blowing their nose once a day - sheesh! I knew a guy taking flonase each and every day of his life just to avoid using a kleenex once a day and I showed him the fine print, that flonase side-effects include cataracts...why would anyone not desperate risk that???!).
     
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Surgery is basically done to remove the congestion in the sinuses, help remove bacterial or other infected mucous and also reduce the allergins stuck in the sinuses. Maybe your sinuses arent congested and everything keeps flowing. I understand it wont fix your allergies but there always a possiblity that someone with alot of mucus etc is going to get clogged up, so surgery isnt neccessarily crazy talk, it might be something that will actually help you??
    From what i have read some people can have everything going on in there sinuses which are polyps, bacterial infections and allergies, and they can all occurr due to sinuses being clogged up.

    I never got anything out of fish oil and yes took 10 caps a day, did nothing for cholesterol, did nothing for inflammation from arthritis etc. I also take curcumin, glucosamine and boat loads of antioxidants so i have alot of the inflammatory things covered.

    My doc says my sinusitis is due to bacterial infection which is common in cfs/me and is mainly due to low immunity. I assume my low nk function which i have tested for contributes to this. I have started immunovir to help with this.

    There is a risk to every treatment but one has to way up the risk to benefit ratio. Thats fine to be anti drugs but when alternative stuff doesnt work why suffer. most drugs have a long list of possible side effects but that doesnt mean someone is going to have that side effect, the risk is usually very low, the risk also depends on the individual.
    I just dont understand people who are all or nothing when it comes to pharma and alternative treatments, im not one of them, i believe there is a happy medium, why would one totally ignore certain treatments without looking further into them and weighing up the risks and benefits, people who dont do this are diddling them self out of getting better.

    The reason why i started this thread was to get individuals experiences on this type of treatment, not to debate if its to be tried or not. I havent even stated i would try leukotrene modifiers, simply looking for peoples experience and not a one eyed view. Your issues seem to be different to my issues as yours are allergy based and my sinusitis is bacterial based so your opinions on allergies may have limited effects on something that is bacterial.
     
  6. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    Ok, heaps, the science for Omega-3 9g/day working is there. So if it does not work for you I would like to explore why. Do you eat a lot of fat? Because NON-omega-3 fat is what inflammatory cytokines are made of. To make the omega-3 strategy work, you need to take your 9g 1st thing in the morning before you eat anything else. (I mean 1/2 hour or more like an hour before eating anything else).

    I also take zinc to repair destroyed mucous membranes. Because I live with cats, to whom I am allergic, I will still get a little mucous membrane destruction between O-3 doses. I take zinc until I can breath. The o-3 and zinc clear my sinuses. Indeed they do clog unbearably if I do not do this. I have found I need extra protein to repair these tissues as well. And I need Vitamin A as well. The O-3 itself totally blocks inflammatory cytokines, but it's effect wanes a bit toward time for next dose. In addition, it takes 2-3 days for it to work (because it only stops NEW cytokine production). I have found I can get it to work in 2 days if late in the day of the 1st day I take an extra 5g o-3.

    It is impossible for this not to work if you do it right so maybe we need to talk a bit more to find out how we are applying it differently. high dose o-3 usues up ALL the enzymes to break down non-o-3 fats from which inflammatory cytokines are made.

    ---

    As to an operation...you can (maybe) fix THAT HOUR'S sinus clog with an operation, but before the operation was even over, I would have a whole new clog, because of ongoing copious weeping of sinusses. An operation can't stop that. I think nasal polyps are are compared to allergies that have nothing to do with such. To me, an operation for allergies is like...blood-letting to cure illness.
     
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  7. place

    place Be Strong!

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    This lis my last symptom. My mucus is so thick that I don't drain, at all. It just hangs out in my sinuses till it gets infected. I flushe it out and that is the only thing that works. Once infection is out, my energy is back and I'm good to go. N

    I have had two sinus surgeries and they did not solve the problem. So, the last hour be for I get up, I roll to my left Sid to have it move to that max cavity. Take 1200 of mucinx then after two hours I flush it out with nielmed. Only my left sinus opening is big enough to get the jello out. I know why it doesn't drain because it is to thick. I am SOL-ed if the infection is behind my eyes.

    Also, I will try to move th mucus to the maxilaries (if its higher) by using a trampoline. Then flush it out. This works 60% of the time.
     
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Hi Place, your sinusitis sounds bad. My mucus is probably more like yours in that its thick and sinuses get blocked, i dont really get a runny nose just that constant post nasal drip. do u use antibiotics or just try to drain the mucus out to get rid of the infection?

    From what i have read people improve with sinus surgery but it doesnt cure the problem, bugger. I think the idea of surgery is to make the sinus cavities slightly bigger and easier to drain. It has been mentioned that there is a new type of procedure not unlike an angiogram where a tube is inserted into the sinuses and a balloon is inflated which helps widen the sinus cavities. This procedure is suppose to be alot simpler to do and is done in an office visit alledgedly, so just a day procedure, with less complications etc but i dont think it is a common procedure yet.

    Im finding a week of high dose doxycycline plus aggressively rinsing sinuses as well as nasal steriod sprays and antihistamines etc seems to help but its mainly the doxy. I then stay on a low dose doxy to try and keep infections down. My doc has had success with doxy and has mentioned that its very rare that infections build a resistence to it. Low dose doxy prevents bacteria from replicating but high dose like 400mg is bacteriocidal in that it will actually kill bacterial infections.

    It seems like its just going to be an ongoing battle, maybe as immunovir improves my immune function then my sinuses will play up alot less???
     
  9. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Hi Heaps,

    I checked more on the sinuplasty and they do it for the maxillary, frontal and sphenoid sinuses. I don't think it would work for me cause I'd need it for the ethmoid. It is pretty common in the States--here is a good article on it and on general sinus woes. http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1574031-overview

    I bet you could find links to search for it in OZ--there are links for the US.

    It is interesting that they say this:


    Sushi
     
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  10. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Sushi, i think my doc believes its just an opportunistic infection in many of us as our immunity is low. I suppose we just hope that some of these immune mods, maf etc can help our immune system and then get on top of sinusitis??
     
  11. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Nice thought, but hasn't worked for me! Though I do suspect screwed up immunity is a big part of it.

    Sushi
     
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  12. place

    place Be Strong!

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    Heaps, I just get it out. I do feel better when on doxy long term 200 a day. But sometimes I have pain and I don't have an infection. It's just really thick. I would do another surgery if I thought I could drain to my throat. It all has to come out the front. ;/
     
  13. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I just cant seem to get it out on its own, but high dose doxy seems to be the only thing that helps with this infection, then it will slowly drain out. good if we had a trap door to these sinuses so we could scoop all the crap out?? what a site, lol.
     

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