Invest in ME Conference 12: First Class in Every Way
OverTheHills wraps up our series of articles on this year's 12th Invest in ME International Conference (IIMEC12) in London with some reflections on her experience as a patient attending the conference for the first time.
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simplify please the methylation knowledge

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by golden, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    i am very much hoping someone will be kind enough to help me understand the metbylation process/blockage

    in as few words as possible.
     
  2. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    This article explains methylation in very simple language. Keep in mind, when the author mentions "folic acid" he is referring to folinic acid and methylfolate rather than the folic acid you see in most supplements. Good luck.
    http://www.prohealth.com/fibromyalgia/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16138
    After that, you can check out the sticky threads in this forum which are about Rich's and Freddd's protocol. If you do decide to follow Freddd's protocol you might also want to check you his micro titration thread which isn't sticky. Rich is the person mentioned in that article.
     
    Marcus2013 likes this.
  3. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    lotus97

    perfect thanks. i have started to understand it a bit.

    http://www.hdri-usa.com/tests/methylation/

    this is the lab mentioned in the article. i was wondering if they deal with the UK.


    also, i notice the glutathione range in this methylation protocol was much higher than dr.myhills which is 1.7-2.6mmol/l

    i do not have the best of times with supplements i must say. i would prefer to only take those which are absolubtely necessary. also, its like a see-saw taking one supplement has a chain reaction and depletes another - it gets rather complicated.

    i wonder if a better way would be to target food groups rich in these deficiencies instead.


    thank you again for the link
     
  4. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I don't know too much about methylation pathway testing. It seems pretty expensive. Even though Rich has recommended it and I trust Rich on most issues I'm skeptical whether it's really necessary. Some people have talked about getting their SNP tested. 23andme is the place people recommend. I don't know too much about that either, but it might be a better test even though they're completely different types of test.

    If you have problems with supplements you might want to try Rich's protocol because Freddd's protocol is going to provoke a stronger response from your body (although people following Freddd's protocol claim taking higher doses and more methyl donors produces quicker results). If you do Rich's protocol, you might want to consider Thorne's children's multi instead of the one Rich recommends since the children's multiple just has vitamins and minerals rather than some of the extra ingredients in the other one. Also, one serving of the thorne's children's multi (6 capsules) has 200 mcg folinic acid and 200 mcg methylfolate so you won't have to buy those separately which will save you some money. Whichever protocol you choose I would recommend starting at a very low dose if you tend to be sensitive to supplements. Although you might become less sensitive to supplements after doing methylation for awhile, initially you might actually become more sensitive due partially to the toxins being released. This is from Rich:
     
  5. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    The main branch of this lab is in the Netherlands: http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/

    I know people in the UK who have used them though they are a bit hard to communicate with.

    Sushi
     
  6. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    thankyou.

    is it fundamentally a glutathione deficiency then? which prevents lymphatic drainage - which encourages virus/bacteria which further depletes glutathione?

    in the simplified article it states 'the average starting value of glutathione in our patients was 3.2 mmol/L (normal 3.9 - 5.5 mmol/L)

    as i noticed dr myhills range is much lower.

    if rich thought it was important to get tested first - even though i wasnt on the forum then - his posts do have a trustworthy feel to them even though i cant understand a lot.

    i will email the USA office first then if netgerlands are difficult to communicate with.

    the childrens vitamins sound like a good solution for me - thankyou.
     
  7. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    Rich has suggested getting the test, but like I said it's pretty expensive. I don't know if it's necessary or not. You can check out this thread about it. Maybe you can post in that thread to see if anyone else has had success with it.
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methylation-pathway-analysis.19451/#post-297904
    And you might want to look into 23andme. There's probably a number of threads discussing SNP testing.
    Some of this stuff is partially of a theoretical nature, but from what I understand it's more than just glutathione depletion although that might be a big part of it.
    Just remember that it has methylfolate and folinic acid so you don't need to take those separately. You might want to just start out on B12 and then slowly work your way up to 6 capsules of the multi starting with just one a day.
     
  8. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Unfortunately the US office is difficult to communicate with too! And they send all the blood samples to the Netherlands anyway. Shipping is going to be the most complicated issue to deal with here, so you might as well just work with the Netherlands office.

    Best wishes,
    Sushi
     
  9. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    i must say i have exchanged a couple of emails with the usa office today and they were prompt and efficient in their replies.
    but maybe it was just very good timing and this is unusual.


    the most difficult thing for me would be finding a doctor who will order them.
    still wondering what to do about this. is there anywhere you can just pay for the tests direct without having to ask the permission of a doctor?
     
  10. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    I'm glad they were responsive. I haven't interacted with them for a couple of years so they must be easier to deal with now. The test is good though, no matter what the road-bumps along the way.

    I remember that someone posted of a way to get this test without a doctor's prescription, but I can't find it now.
    Maybe someone else will remember. I think it was a US connection though. A chiropractor can also prescribe the test if that is any easier.

    Best,
    Sush
     
  11. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

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    I've also had a good experience with the US office. They always answer my emails very quickly.

    Golden, Dr. Ben Lynch offers the methylation panel on his website, but it's more expensive compared to going through a practitioner. He charges $395, whereas it normally costs $295.

    I have to say that I'm so glad I did the panel. I just received my results over the weekend, and they confirm that I have a methylation issue. After years of countless lab tests, I finally have an indicator that can explain the severity of my condition.
     
  12. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    Thanks Sushi.

    I hope someone remembers how to get the test without a doctor.

    However i have always found chiropractors/osteopaths etc easy to talk to and they listen so i would be prepared to go down this route. Not sure they have a medical licence in the UK thougb which is what the USA office want a copy of by fax.
     
  13. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    I am very happy that you have found that all important missing piece of the puzzle. It is particularly importan i feel, to M.E. patients, to have that physical evidence on paper because of the pressure from the psych vampires to plaster psychological dysfunction onto us. - its how i feel anyway.

    But more importantly, understanding the problem means that when treating with supplements it could avoid damage and permanent relapse occurring.

    could i ask you or anyone to list the methylation panel of tests and reference ranges?

    Finally, i will also look into the Doctors website too! as another possible route.

    Thanks again!
     
  14. Symptomatic

    Symptomatic Senior Member

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    My experiences with the US office have been less than stellar, especially with regards to the Nagalse test I did late last year.

    When was your blood drawn for the methylation testing? I'm now waiting for those results, had blood drawn 4 weeks ago.
     
  15. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    golden I believe that there is a sample test report on Dr. Ben Lynch's site. Sushi
     
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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  17. golden

    golden Senior Member

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    thanks lotus97,


    It was when i came into close contact with someone diagnosed M.E. that i became very ill although it would be over a decade later the diagnoses was given.

    I dont know whether this would be considered a cluster case and so render the methylation testing irrelevant.
     
  18. invisiblejungle

    invisiblejungle Senior Member

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    It took about 5 weeks for my results to come back.
     
  19. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Hi Golden,

    In my experience and opinion what happens is that many or even most have a stressor of some kind, vaccine, bacterial or viral infection, car wreck, death of a loved one, etc. It doesn't seem to matter in theis. What haapes, again in my experience and opinion, is that a person on the edge for all sorts of reasons drops into the pit which is metastable and difficult to leave. I had 6 to 8 six month crashes before the 17 year one.
     
  20. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

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    I haven't watched the rest of the videos in the series, but this seems to be an alternative to anyone who doesn't feel like reading.
     

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