Lipkin's Monster ME/CFS Study: Microbes, Immunity & Big Data
The Microbe Discovery Project outlines an ambitious new study by top researchers that has collected patient samples, but needs desperately funds to complete the work.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Simplified methylation protocol - normal symptoms?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Searching, Oct 18, 2012.

  1. Searching

    Searching

    Messages:
    12
    Likes:
    1
    Canada
    Hello all,

    I've searched this forum, but can't seem to find anyone with the same question(s), so I've started this new thread. My apologies if it's been brought up/answered before.

    I started Rich VanK's simplified methylation protocol 24 days ago. I was fortunate enough to have him review my results/numbers, he suggested adding methionine.

    I am currently taking his supplements exactly, plus:
    -500 mg methionine
    -Ferro-Sequels iron tablets (Recommended by my doctor, OK'd by Rich)
    *My current dosage of the Neurological Health Formula is at 1 full tablet

    I've been experiencing more energy, and mind seems to be more 'clear' more often, which is great.

    However, I've also been dreaming constantly since starting on the protocol. Any sleep at all is just constantly plagued with dreams, which leaves me feeling tired. I've never experienced this before.

    Also, I'm hoping maybe one of my fellow female patients may have an opinion on this... I've been having my period for eleven days. It's never gone on this long, I typically stop around day four or five.

    Does anyone know if I should be tweaking anything or if I should just wait it out? From what I can tell, I'm not experiencing any detox symptoms. I had a bit of facial acne for the first two weeks or so, but it's cleared up completely.

    Any advice or experience with these symptoms?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,101
    Likes:
    767
    USA
    Hi Searching;

    My experience with these symptoms is a bit different than yours,so I'll write about what I've read.
    I'm not sure how much B6 is in the formula, but it may cause intense dreaming with some people, even with lower dosages.
    With bleeding problems, B12 and folate can be very helpful. But there also needs to be enough copper in the diet. Copper helps with iron absorption as well.
     
  3. Vance

    Vance

    Messages:
    20
    Likes:
    14
    Hi Searching,

    I wish I had an answer for you... Many people have reactions that involve a 'sped-up brain' (including me), but I can't tell if that's what you're describing. I can't imagine it would apply only to night, though.

    In any case, many people have found that starting with full dosages at once, as it appears you're doing, brings on too many startup symptoms to tolerate. You might want to cut back, and add in new items/dosages gradually, in case that's what these are. And if so, hopefully your tolerance will build.

    I have a question for you -- do you know on what basis he suggested the methionine? I got my own methylation panel results back recently, and debated adding methionine based on what I saw there, in combination with other recent tests showing plasma methionine and homocysteine. I'm curious what prompted him to recommend it for you?

    If you don't know, can you tell me if you sent him any other test besides the methylation panel? Because if not, I can only conclude it was b/c both your SAMe and SAH were low/low-ish (as mine are).

    Thanks,
    Vance
     
  4. Searching

    Searching

    Messages:
    12
    Likes:
    1
    Canada
    Hi Vance,

    Thanks for your suggestion re: starting gradually. I guess I'd convinced myself that starting the protocol all at once would be tolerable. I did start the Neurological Health Formula at a quarter tablet, and have been augmenting by a quarter each week. I can deal with it so far, so I have a feeling I'll be stubborn and try to wait it out.

    The only test I've done is the methylation pathway panel (Vitamin Diagnostics) I can copy and paste what Rich wrote, hopefully it will help you.

    As per Rich:

    "Your methylation cycle is somewhat depleted of its metabolites, moreso than most I've seen. [...] It's possible that you have one or more upregulating genetic polymorphisms in your cystathionine beta synthase (CBS) enzyme, which tends to drain the methylation cycle into the transsulfuration pathway. [...] I think you would benefit by supplementing with some additional methionine, which feeds the methylation cycle, because your methylation cycle is somewhat drained out. Perhaps 500 milligrams per day."

    I'm still studying his interpretation of my panel, trying to understand it from his point of view.

    Perhaps a bit off topic: What's your opinion re: the Smart Youthful Energy drink. Have you tried it?

    Thanks.
     
  5. Vance

    Vance

    Messages:
    20
    Likes:
    14
    OK -- thanks Searching. That's kind of what I expected. With respect to methionine, I think he can only be talking about SAMe and SAH, since homocysteine and methionine aren't in the panel, and low intermediates in the folate cycle wouldn't explain a lack of material within the SAM cycle.(but a CBS upregulation potentially could)

    If you have any specific questions about his interpretation, I might be able to help.

    Re: Smart Youthful Energy, aka "NT Factor"... No, I haven't tried it. I have a hard time trusting the legitimacy of it, because of their flashy branding, extravagant claims, and the extreme difficulty in finding out what's actually inside it that's unique. Their "scientific clinical trials" seem to mostly refer to journals not included on PubMed -- I don't know what exactly that means, but it doesn't seem good. The ones that ARE on PubMed only seem to have a very loose connection to NTFactor. If Rich hadn't spoken of it with legitimacy and provided a rationale for why it works, I never would have given it a second thought, and excused it as the next Red Bull.

    On the surface, they simply talk about "lipid replacement". That's basically the same role lecithin or phosphatidylserine has in the SMP, probably at a lower price. And definitely, membrane lipids do get attacked by oxidative stress in CFS/ME. The question is whether NTFactor does something ordinary lecithin or PS don't.

    And in fact, Rich gave a very interesting description of how it works, a sort of "Russian doll" mechanism where is sacrifices outer layers in order to bring the inner layers to the target membranes. He says he got this directly from Dr. Garth Nicolson, who is somehow tied to NT Factor. Unfortunately I can't find this described anywhere else, so I remain a little skeptical that this product offers anything that lecithin/PS don't.

    Having said that, I think some people on PR say they've been helped by it? Whether you use NTFactor, lecithin, or PS, I think giving the body building blocks to repair lipid membranes is a great idea, and worth doing. Impaired membrane integrity and fluidity could be behind some of the more mysterious symptoms we've experienced. I doubt it would be a fast process, so results might be gradual.

    In any case -- I hope your current treatments make a difference for you.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page