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Simon Wessely's latest

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Min, Sep 15, 2009.

  1. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    well, I wrote my responses before reading the comment about defamation, but I think that for the most part....
    .....we have been joking about this stuff...
    .....we are not writing this in a truly public venue......
    ....he has pretty much made a career out of defamation of us......
    .....and what is written on this part of this forum is not likely to exact any real harm on him......
    ......and even if he somehow found this, took offense, tried to charge us with defamation, and actually was successful, it's not like most of us have any financial resources for him to receive compensation from.....
    ...if anything that last part would help to disprove one of the things that he claims is a key motivator for illness behavior (that of financial gain w/o working for it)
  2. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

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    Near St Louis, MO
    Tammie - The law in the UK, as it currently stands, refers to emails and internet forums as much to any other form of communication. Last year, the High Court decided that communication in emails is libel but on internet bulletin boards (which this is) is slander as it is seem more as speech. Even chat rooms are not immune!

    I'm not saying that Wessely would want to sue, but I am saying that he almost certainly could if he wanted to.
  3. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    There are millions of people walking about with attachment disorders mental illness is something else.He would have to prove damage to his professional reputation practice etc-----A recent judgement has decided that comments on forums is like chatting in a pub and slander which is rarely actionable.He,s a crazy coot etc- slander but not judged as permanent more like abuse which is not defamation
  4. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

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    Gerwyn

    http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_roo...les/5176-Bulletin-Boards-Slander-Or-Libel.htm

    That article refers to this one:

    http://www.lawdit.co.uk/reading_roo...s-Defamatory-Comments-Posted-on-a-Fansite.htm
  5. boomer

    boomer Senior Member

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    Ok if I can figure out how to delete my posts I will . Could someone please tell me? Otherwise I suppose I can always leave a blank post. Thanks.
  6. Martlet

    Martlet Senior Member

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    Boomer - Why do you want to remove your post? You make perfectly good sense.
  7. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    I have removed my posts, not that I believe they amount to anything more than a little fun, but I accept Martlet's cautions.

    I would appreciate it if Koan edited her post referencing mine.
  8. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    Hi Martlet for me the key part of the judgement was that internet defamation at worst was slander not libel to have an action in slander you must demonstrate financial loss- or actual damage the burden of proof here lies with the plaintiff-I take your point about fair comment but that wasn,t my angle .slander is rarely actionable
  9. Marco

    Marco Old blackguard

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    Just to clarify for future reference as I wish to avoid exposing me, any other poster or this forum to any potential legal action.

    I assume that it is fine for a person to repeatedly make public statements about a group of sick people that directly or indirectly lead to a lack of medical care, inappropriate or even harmful treatment, loss of earnings, loss of benefits, public scorn and even the distrust and disapproval of friends and family. Because these statements were not made regarding one particular individual?

    That it is not OK to make a harmless joke wondering what motivates such a person because the joke refers to a particular individual?

    Is it permissible to post extracts here from a document that might at some stage become the subject of a claim of defamation?

    I'm just trying to understand what is and is not permissible on a public forum.
  10. bullybeef

    bullybeef Senior Member

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    North West, England, UK
    Could the UK ME community have a case with the European Court of Human Rights?
  11. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    Marco, I edited out your quote.
  12. I have been wondering about that lately. To my mind, Sophia Mirza's case is almost certainly a severe infraction of her human rights, and one that in fact led directly to her death.
    The psych lobby may not listen to good science, but they certainly will listen to a court order.
    Do we have any lawyers in??

    Rachel xx
  13. Gerwyn

    Gerwyn Guest

    I,ll see if I can still use my LLB and try to find out funny since my mind has "come back" I,m much better with the science than the Law which is still foggy
  14. Tammie

    Tammie Senior Member

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    Well, if you really think that any of my comments on here would hurt anyone (by possibly bringing on a lawsuit) or hurt me, for that matter, feel free to get rid of them.....I am not entirely sure how to do that myself

    ......thoguh as I said before, I believe that his repeated published comments about us have done substantially more harm than my joking remarks on here....still I absolutely don't wish to bring any trouble on anyone (or on this site)
  15. oerganix

    oerganix Senior Member

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    Thank you Gerwyn for some common sense and a breath of fresh air. If Wessely wants to sue me, bring it on. Since he gets paid by the insurance industry and the drug industry and the government, I'd like to see him try to claim financial loss. I, on the other hand, have suffered total financial loss due to this illness and haven't got a peso for him to collect. Freedom is nothing left to lose.

    What has been said here on this forum is no worse than what is presented weekly on Saturday Night Live. I find it very entertaining. For a guy who has said that 'doctors are disgusted with ME patients' this is nothing more than self defense.

    Since this forum originates in the US, I doubt the UK would have jurisdiction anyway. BE NOT AFRAID.
  16. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    Min wrote:
    Min,

    It is known that Prof Wessely had been a member of PRISMA Health supervisory board, but it is understood that he has not been for some years now.

    An enquiry to PRISMA Health asking then to confirm the year in which Prof Wessely ceased involvement with PRISMA Health would be useful. Did not Holmsey also post that Prof Wessely had confirmed to him by email that he was no longer involved with PRISMA Health?

    These are the currently available Way Back Machine archived pages for PRISMA Health:

    http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://prismahealth.com

    Search Results for Jan 01, 1996 - Aug 20, 2009


    Those requiring documentary evidence might like to keep this link on file, also from the Way Back Machine archived webpages.

    The material below was supplied to me by someone who held it on file. These pages may not necessarily still be available on the Way Back Machine, but they come from a trusted source.

    The URL paths suggests that they both date from 2001.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20010302091247/www.prismahealth.com/ENGLISH/COMPANY/OFFICERS.HTM

    Supervisory Board

    RA Georg F. Thoma (President), German, is managing partner at Shearman &
    Sterling, a leading international law firm. Mr. Thoma's broadly based
    practice concentrates on capital market and M&A transactions. He has
    been the leading lawyer in major deals such as the Daimler Benz -
    Chrysler Corporation merger. Mr. Thoma is regarded as one of the top M&A
    lawyers worldwide.

    Prof. Dr. Michael Adams, German, is leading the institute for Law and
    Economics at the Hamburg University. He is adviser to the German
    Administration and Supervisory Board member of a number of well-known
    German corporations.

    Dr. Fons Dekkers, Dutch, international specialist on patient’s rights
    and information. He is director of the Dutch Federation of Patients’ and
    Consumer organisations and for Europe Vice-president of the European
    Public Health Alliance. Published many articles and books over the last
    20 years on rights of patient and citizens in healthcare.

    Dr. Peter Jaensch, German, is CEO of GFKL Financial Services AG and
    Supervisory Board member of several innovative and service companies.

    Prof. Dr. Simon Wessely, British, is regarded as a world leading expert
    in the field of medically unexplained illnesses. He has been publishing
    extensively on chronic fatigue and is leading, among other things, the
    Chronic Fatigue Unit at the King’s College in London.



    http://web.archive.org/web/20010303020427/www.prismahealth.com/ENGLISH/JOBOFF~1/General.HTM

    [...]


    General Information

    The Company


    PRISMA Health is an independent team of experts specialising in the
    assessment and treatment of long-term disabilities resulting from
    complex chronic illnesses. We are helping in particular those clients
    who have been diagnosed as having a ‘medically unexplained illness’ such
    as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Chronic Pain and Fibromyalgia. Usually
    these patients are unable to carry out full time employment or lead
    normal lives. We provide a unique and highly effective resolution
    program for this group of clients and work closely with insurance and
    re-insurance companies throughout Europe.

    Senior executives from the European financial and healthcare industry
    founded PRISMA Health AG in 1999. The Company has its headoffice in
    Essen, Germany, in the heart of one of Europe’s largest economic
    regions, the ‘Ruhrgebiet’. Operating companies have been established in
    the United Kingdom, Denmark, the Netherlands and Canada.

    The Prisma Program

    Research shows that 30-40% of people who claim long-term disability
    benefits suffer from ‘medically unexplained illnesses’ Examples of the
    conditions, as described by health professionals worldwide, are Chronic
    Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia and Chronic Pain. These can be severely
    disabling conditions for which no clear organic or orthopaedic cause can
    be identified.

    People who fall into this category of illness, i.e. have been ill for
    many years and unable to work, will require a specific treatment program
    designed to resolve their disability and hopefully help them lead a
    normal life. To this end, PRISMA has developed a unique and
    evidence-based treatment protocol that has been shown to resolve the
    long-term disabilities of this group of clients. The program is
    tailor-made for the individual, is intensive and involves a variety of
    medical and psychological disciplines. It is delivered by highly skilled
    staff and takes place in the client’s local environment – home and
    workplace – over a five to seven month period.
  17. Koan

    Koan Be the change.

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    From Prisma Health Canada's website ( http://www.prismahealth.ca/ )

    [​IMG]

    Case Study # 1-Catherine Catherine was a 26 year old female, who, after 6 months of employment as a Mechanical Engineer, was diagnosed with Environmental Sensitivity and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

    After many years of failed attempts at treatment, and deemed totally disabled, her file was reviewed by Prisma Health in November 2004, after some 16 years on disability.

    Catherine entered the Prisma Program in February 2005. She begrudgingly participated initially and in time wholeheartedly engaged in reactivation therapy, adjustment counseling by a psychologist, career counseling, employment readiness preparation and job search assistance. She was also very active with volunteering within a local theatre group.

    In November 2005, Catherine returned to full time employment and a very active lifestyle. Prisma continued to work with her until late 2006.

    In December 2006, Prisma Canada received a Christmas card from Catherine thanking us for the assistance provided to her in her successful return to work, and in Catherine’s words “for giving me my life back”….


    [video=youtube;X9aENGodu5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9aENGodu5A[/video]
  18. starryeyes

    starryeyes Senior Member

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    Thank you for this information ME agenda. It's helpful.
  19. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    You're welcome.

    There is also information and commentary around PRISMA Health and PRISMA in:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/8401751/C...n-Goldacre-Quackbusting-and-Corporate-Science

    Cultural Dwarfs and Junk Journalism: Dr Ben Goldacre, Quackbusting and Corporate Science

    by Martin Walker and in Walker's book

    Skewed:

    74, 76-8, 76n, 80-1, 80-1n, 81-83, 91, 167-68
  20. Dx Revision Watch

    Dx Revision Watch dxrevisionwatch.com

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    "reactivation therapy"

    Mmmmm.

    Maybe I could sign up for a bit of that.

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