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Mark Berry reports on Dr. Gibson's introduction and Dr. Whittemore's keynote speech, at the 11th Invest in ME International ME Conference in London.
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Simon Wessely Quotes

Discussion in 'Information and Resources' started by Valentijn, Dec 22, 2012.

  1. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Updated through 2007. He's definitely slowing down a bit, though some papers aren't accessible without paying. I'll try to get a look at them after I finish up with the easy stuff.
     
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  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Updated through 2012 :cool:
     
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  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Currently digging up the harder-to-find articles and chapters. I just hit one that mentions (and dismisses) PEM:
    I'd seen this elsewhere, so decided to see what the hell he's talking about. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_contraction#Eccentric_contraction it's called delayed onset muscle soreness. While the time frame is about right, wikipedia has this to say: "The pain is felt only when the muscle is stretched, contracted or put under pressure, not when it is at rest."

    Whereas in PEM/PENE, the pain is constant and symptoms are more widespread than just muscles that were used.

    There might indeed be a problem with eccentric muscle contractions, but if so it's a pathological version of it - not standard deconditioning.
     
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  4. Persimmon

    Persimmon Senior Member

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    Valentijn, this is great!

    Thanks for all the hard work.

    Here's a Wessely" quote that acknowledges the severity of our disease: it's good to be able to point to our biggest critics admitting this much:

    "... far from merely representing the “worried well”, many such patients are severely disabled. For example, chronic fatigue syndrome is associated with worse disability than conditions such as heart failure."

    The quote is from page 396 of 'Functional somatic syndromes: one or many?'
    S Wessely, C Nimnuan, M Sharpe
    Lancet 1999; 354: 936–39
     
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  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    These sorts of quotes are difficult ... I try to choose the ones where he's stating things very plainly, but in one like this I think his meaning is different than what would usually be inferred by someone reading it. That is, there's a suggestion in this quote that CFS is a serious physiological disease by comparing it to heart failure, but what he really seems to mean in the greater context of his other work is that mental illnesses like his version of CFS can be just as disabling as physiological illness.
     
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  6. Mya Symons

    Mya Symons Mya Symons

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    "Finally, it should be noted that our conclusions are primarily based on common sense, in the absence of a sound evidence base."
    Huibers M, Wessely S. The act of diagnosis: pros and cons of labelling chronic fatigue syndrome. Psychological Medicine 2006: 36

    This one pissed me off the most. How can he claim that his research is based in science and then conclude it is primarily based on common sense. After admitting this, why is it that people still listen to this man? I don't get it.

    I think this is a good idea (keeping his quotes in one area). When he contradicts himself, we will know; and, hopefully, can get others to see it to.
     
  7. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    While reviewing quotes today, I realized that this recent one:
    ... is directly contradicted by Wessely's earlier work here:
    ... and here:
    Though perhaps he could claim it wasn't strictly compulsory, since the patient could always opt to starve on the street if benefits were withheld pending a course of CBT :rolleyes:
     
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  8. Sidereal

    Sidereal Senior Member

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    No disability for you unless you let us make you bedridden with GET first.
     
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  9. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @Valentijn - this is mind-blowing. I don't know how many hours you put into this, but thank you! I am actually sort of speechless, in the face of Wessely's limitless incredibly mindless blather ...
     
  10. msf

    msf Senior Member

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    Valentjin, you forgot this one:

    'I'm a ******* idiot' - Simon Wessely (not the Simon Wessely you know, of course!)
     
  11. Dufresne

    Dufresne almost there...

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    I've been a member of this forum for six years now and never bothered reading anything from Wessely. I basically understood what he was about from little snippets picked up here and there.

    But with nothing to do this afternoon I decided to skim through these quotes and can't help but be impressed by the extent of his assholeness. I actually like the fact that he's been knighted, it sort of punctuates his absurdity. And now that he's doing a bit of rebranding since the rituximab study came out... Make no mistake, the knight is falling on his sword.
     
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  12. Never Give Up

    Never Give Up Collecting improvements, until there's a cure.

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    After reading through your original post my first though was what a f*#k head! After further reflection I realize this man is truly EVIL!
     
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  13. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    @Valentijn I couldn't see if you have anything from Wessely's very blunt (and now paywalled) New Scientist interview from 2009, "How people can think themselves sick", but I don't think so. Anyway, I have a print copy here, so I'll put some quotes up from it:

    On the effects of the mind on the body:
    [​IMG]
    On how CFS starts:
    On severe CFS:
    On CBT and GET treatment:
    On CFS/IBS/FS overlap:
    I think his views are unusually clear in this interview - I can't think of any way this could be spun as anything other than an insistence on this being a primary psychological problem.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
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  14. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    Yeah, you're a real hero.

    Liar.

    Also inconsistent. He has made widely differing statements over the year about the effectiveness of CBT for ME/CFS, ranging from the above, to it being "not remotely curative".

    He just says whatever version he thinks his audience wants to hear, or that he can get away with.

    I will also bet that when the official records are finally released about his advice to governments (assuming they ever are), they will show that his real views were much more unscientific and extreme than anything he has said in public.

    Agree. He nailed his views to the mast for all to see in this interview.
     
  15. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    When it comes to ME/CFS that appears after mononucleosis, a third of such ME/CFS patients show good improvement (eg: back to work) after around decade, and around half of those were considered to be fully recovered. Ref: 1
     
  16. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    That may be true, as far as that subset goes. But no definition of ME/CFS requires it to be triggered by mononucleosis, so at the least it has to be a heavily qualified statement. If Wessely's comment about thirds was clearly confined to that subset, then he is probably on safe ground (as far as it goes), and I am happy to withdraw and apologise.

    If he did not clearly qualify that claim, then he is playing his usual games with words.
     
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Well I am not sure where Wessely gets his figures from, but in the case of this mononucleosis triggered ME/CFS subset, the study shown that only 13% reached fully recovery, so that is less than a half of the 33% figure that Wessely is quoting for recovery.

    However, Wessely's quote of 33% getting good improvement would appear to tally with that study.

    Agreed that ME/CFS does not have to be triggered by viruses like EBV that can cause mononucleosis, and it may be that enterovirus triggered ME/CFS might have different recovery rates.

    I'd like to know where his figures come from. Presumably they must be from some study or other.
     
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  18. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    In the interview, he is commenting on the question, "How successful is your treatment of CFS?", which may indicate use in his own practice. No reference is given as regards the reply.
     
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  19. worldbackwards

    worldbackwards A unique snowflake

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    One last one, one for the future I think:
     
    Mary likes this.
  20. nasim marie jafry

    nasim marie jafry

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