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Simon Wessely and "all in the mind"

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Esther12, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Wasn't it Harry Truman who said - if you can't convince people confuse them.

    Decades of science have not moved this pathetic "profession" ? anywhere.
     
  2. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    I was just reading some rapid responses here: http://www.bmj.com/content/319/7221/1376?tab=responses

    There were a couple of response to the article and Wessely's reply which I thought were worth posting, and decided to add them to this thread.




     
  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Some Wessely comments about Breivik, where he says:

    "In psychiatry you judge people by what their beliefs are, rather than their behaviour"

    He also talks about people preferring prison to a psychiatric hospital because in that later they 'try to do your head in'.

    What beliefs of CFS patients justify lumping them together, and medicalising their cognitions and behaviour? He's putting forward a much more sensible view of psychiatry here than has been imposed upon patients as a result of his work. I was really surprised by him making this claim, and do not see how it can be understood in relation to his work on CFS, and thought that I'd post it here as I reminder to myself of it.

    It was only a tiny clip, so he didn't really have time to say what he meant, but it seems to present a very different view of psychiatry to his norm (and rather a dualist, non-biopsychosocial one at that).
     
  4. Desdinova

    Desdinova Senior Member

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    Wessely is a gifted orator, salesman and marketer. Thus he has learned over the years how to speak to people to convey just the message he wants them to get. As far as him presenting a professional opinion that doesn't sound bad and / or that you agree with, if you roll the dice enough times eventually it's going to come up snake-eyes/
     
    Sean and Snow Leopard like this.
  5. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Just because he doesn't eat livers with faava beans,doesn't mean he's NOT an evil, skilled manipulator :alien:
    They turned Lector into a raving kook in later works but in first novel/film he was far more "dangerous" because he was so calm and well mannered....
    To paraphrase from an old film
    "The Devil is most dangerous, when he's being the most charming" ;)
     
  6. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    It could be that he see things like the belief that one has suffered from a loss of capacity which is not the result of cognitive or behavioural changes as dysfunctional. Or more important - the belief that one has suffered a loss of capacity which legitimises support from private health insurance, or social insurance systems.

    When so little is known about causes of CFS, it seems that placing people in positions of authority for assessing the beliefs of patients will inevitably lead to quackery, and the imposition of the prejudices of those in positions of medical/psychiatric authority.

    I get the impression that Wessely starts from really different moral assumptions to myself - and I'm deeply unhappy about the impact his assumptions have had upon my life.
     
  7. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    I did appreciate your SW video Esther - the visuals and voice being out of sync - just the way I like ! Contrary to his beliefs most ME sufferers if able pursue all possibilties to try and restore health - scientific findings, treatments being used and found effective and following Internet sites like Poenix Rising where treatment regimes are shared by members. As the UK advertisement here says "he should have gone to spec savers".
     
  8. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    How do you know? o_O
     
  9. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Alex
    he's not a surgeon, that's why, or I would be worried :p
     
  10. Tito

    Tito Senior Member

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    In conclusion, the weasle is lecturing his expert opinion on a man he never talked to based on what he read in the DailyMail. Sounds like the same approach he's been using with severe ME sufferers...
     
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  11. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    Looks like he is dabbling with his own uncertainties - some theoretical definition of insanity. And the psychos can't agree apparently.
     
  12. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    He does seem like an attention seeker
    I also think his ilk are at the moment trying to move away from ME/CFS and covering their arses because they know the evidence is against them and they are gonna get called up on it one day, maybe even by the Law.
    ergo,they are trying to build a defence of saying:
    "But oh look, we did all this other stuff too! We care! We are proffessionals with SCIENCE!"

    Suuuuure they do, and I'm the pink tooth fairy named Fiona! :alien:
    (or would that be "green" tooth fairy? *he says thinking of Shrek* :p)
     
  13. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Hi Fiona, how are you doing? :) Its refreshing to meet someone I can believe in, after trying to come to grips with psychobabble. I see more evidence of toothfairies than most of psychobabble, so I am happy to say hello to you. I wonder if the psychobabblers even acknowledge the existence of tooth fairies? The babble they give credence to is far more outlandish. Have a nice tooth hunt, Alex
     
  14. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Has anyone read much of Wessely's brain injury stuff? It often sounds similar to his CFS stuff, but brain injury seems to get more interest and respect than CFS.

    I've not read enough of Wessely's stuff in this area to say, but it does seem to have some familiar themes:

    I mention this because there's a new brain injury study out "Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy in Blast-Exposed Military Veterans and a Blast Neurotrauma Mouse Model": http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/134/134ra60

    Weesely commented on it with the SMC:


     
  15. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Because US forces aren't routinely shat on by the likes of Wessely to keep costs to the bureaucrat scum down?

    Because UK military has far too much of a culture of "booze and pretend hard ass" than larger social outlets etc the US has that reinforces aspect of them still being people rather than only allow machismo stupidity
    (ie UK forces will have lower tendency to report problems, because of a poor cultural system in the our miltiary than US)

    US forces has better integrated veterans disability system (When it works that is!) and education system. (UK gov really regards troops as "human sandbags who cost too much money", grrr)

    and,UK tends to be much more cautious, after much longer experience of dirty back alley fighting etc. (so our troops are less likely to get injured because less gung ho and more thought/experience...US is learning too, hard way, alas)

    So more US folk will be seen/treated for these problems where as more UK veterans will be denied/hide it, but US will also have higher rates
     
  16. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    I have reactive osteoarthritis/porosis (my Neurologist) What is this pathetic bunch of mumbo- jumbos still hovering in the wings.But the Wessley sort of hey here's our pathetic contribution still hovering around real pathology we don't understand yet. Crap, tiny minds as Freud (not scientific) and in the Uk absolutely incapable of seeing scientific findings - what is it in the established medical here in the Uk. 4 Docs in my family who would like to know too of much misleading/ignorance here in rhe UK.
     
  17. Enid

    Enid Senior Member

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    I really do hope he finds HIMSELF stuck in the limbo for years - all his sort - gosh it is not too difficult to loathe their ignorance.
     
  18. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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  19. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Just saw a new debate with Wessely:
    Smart drugs: magic bullet or cheating ourselves?

    http://www.worldbytes.org/smart-drugs-magic-bullet-or-cheating-ourselves/

    It wasn't very good, but I thought Wessely was okay in this (although I hate the way he uses humour to ingratiate himself with an audience).

    None of the speakers considered the possibility the increasing our ability to adapt our mind to our desires would increase the power of those who are already in positions of social authority, and who are able to shape the systems and structures which determine what sorts of behaviour is to be rewarded, and what preferences lauded: currently some people are compelled by their biology to behave in a stubborn and dysfunctional way, and I think that's a good thing. Increasing our ability to subvert our nature could serve to undermine the impulses which lead some to fight for social progress and change.

    If we'd been able to drug black slaves in a way which left them absorbed and contented in their work, would that have been a good thing? If we have more effective drugs to help ensure that those at the bottom of society cause fewer problems for themselves and those at the top (and some psychoactive medication already seems to be used in this way) doesn't that serve to undermine some of the impetus for social justice? What if some people want to escape their distracting concerns about their own selfishness, and willingness to prioritise their desire for holidays over the needs of others for basic nutrition and shelter? I'd have been more interested if those sorts of political concerns had been considered... but these debates are normally based on a foundation of pragmatism, so wasn't expecting much.
     
  20. SilverbladeTE

    SilverbladeTE Senior Member

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    Esther

    [​IMG]

    while the "illuminati" is moslty a joke, you give the folk in power the ability to directly "push people's buttons" and oh boy, Stalin would have creamed his pants at such ability as "drugs to adjust attitudes", never mind our butthole leaders ;)
     

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