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Similarities between ME/CFS and MS

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Sparrowhawk, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/205

    Myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome and encephalomyelitis disseminata/multiple sclerosis show remarkable levels of similarity in phenomenology and neuroimmune characteristics


    Gerwyn Morris12* and Michael Maes23

    Received: 16 June 2013
    Accepted: 15 August 2013
    Published: 17 September 2013



    Something we've discussed on the board before under the heading of Is CFS/ME just MS light?




    I found some of that hard to follow, but gather there are sufficient similarities to support their thesis. Bold passages are mine.
     
  2. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I wonder how any other chronic illnesses are like me.
    My understanding is that integrative and functional medical professionals
    view most, or all, chronic illnesses as the result of a damaged intestine.

    It's no secret, at least on the internet, that many or most ms patients are
    gluten intolerant. Just Google ms gluten to find this. The white lesions
    on my brain vanished after changing my diet. As did my ataxia and right
    foot drag. I still have fine motor skill problems and seizures.

    I wonder why i was diagnosed with cfs/me instead of ms. tc .. x
     
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  3. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    A dr wheldon cured his wife's MS with long term antibiotics
     
  4. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Wow, would love to see a reference on that if you have one, thanks.
     
  5. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    xchocoholic likes this.
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info from David Weldon. It was interesting to see how much ms
    has in common with me.

    I'd love to know what Dr Wahls thinks of this.
     
  7. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    An issue I have with calling CFS/ME "MS light", aside from the issue that its more ME that is similar than CFS, is that in general CFS/ME has higher morbidity, though mortality is lower. MS is more likely to kill you, but ME is more likely to create severe disability. CF on the other hand, and most PVFS, I am not so sure about. CF is probably less morbid than MS, and most cases of PVFS probably are too. Its when you start comparing MS with ME that higher morbidity is apparent.
     
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  8. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1

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    I too had an issue with calling ME MS light.. as after all many ME cases are far more disabled then a lot with MS are. I know two people who have had MS long term and they are far more able then I are!! (One of those even came over and gave me a hand with doing my gardening one time).
    .................

    For those who want to further compare the similarities of ME and MS http://www.hfme.org/mevsmscondensedmodified.htm
     
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  9. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay

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  10. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    So, is there a difference between ms and me ? The more i look at this the more
    they look like the same illness. In both illnesses, degrees vary.

    My me started out with bronchitis that wouldn't clear up despite repeat antibiotics.
    I went downhill quickly from there. I wouldn't be surprised if I'd been given
    flouroquinolones and that's what finished me off.
     
  11. Shell

    Shell Senior Member

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    Hillary Johnson records in Osler's Web that in the '80s and '90s a lot of people who were eventually found to have ME had been dx with MS - some had lesions in MRI scans.
    I spent the first few years with MS as the possible dx, especially with the nerve damage, foot drag and loss of balance.
    But the MRI was "inconclusive" "clear" "some wear and tear" "some spinal damage in two places" depending on which neuro was talking at me.
    I've still got the partial paralysis so I can't walk - but this would tick the one-of-the-polio-viruses box that Ramsay considered.

    It's also happened that people with a dx of ME or CFS turn out to have MS. The overlap is very marked.

    I agree with Alex. I am way more disabled than friends with MS. I also wonder who will live longer; my heart and lungs have had it and we know from studies that heart failure is the number one cause of death in ME. It's difficult to get proper mortality figures when death certs say heart failure and don't mention ME or CFS. I can't help wondering if proper research was done whether ME and MS would have similar outcomes there too.
     
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I wish I'd known this 23 years ago. I could've tried Dr Weldon's protocol.
    I was lead down the food intolerance / leaky gut path in 2005 by an ex gp and since it
    helped so much I didn't pay attention to this.

    I wonder if all I did via diet was allow my body to better deal with
    the infections I have. I know those with untreated celiac disease can't heal
    because of Elizabeth Hasselbeck's story.
     
  13. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Excellent TV coverage from that Australian science program, thanks for posting.
     
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  14. Shell

    Shell Senior Member

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    It's interesting how often chlamydia Pneumonia pops up in discussions. I must try and find some papers on this.
    On the food side of things. It's been known since well before dear ol'Hippocrates that what we eat affects our health and ability to heal. But modern farming and food production are big money and therefore politically powerful.
    I have no doubt that what we are eating - soaked in chemicals from planting onwards - is partly to blame for how sick we are.
     
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  15. Elph68

    Elph68 Senior Member

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  16. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    From Dr Jamie's blog in February about ME/CFS: "I have called it MS light before and I think it is a good working hypothesis for now. Up To Date’s summary on MS is here. Note the many similarities, genetics, epidemiology (including cluster outbreaks), possible problems with the Hepatitis B vaccine. It seems to me our best hope post XMRV is to ride on the coattails of MS, even though it is pathetic that we need to, given that there are at least three times as many of us."

    And a later blog: "I heard from people who took exception with my use of the nickname MS Light in previous blogs, feeling that it trivializes our illness. That was certainly not my intent, rather I think the comparison of ME to MS is a useful one conceptually, but sister illnesses is a better way to put it."

    The Feb blog is at http://www.x-rx.net/blog/2013/02/ms-light.html and it has a lot about MS biomarkers and possibly leads for something similar in ME patients? I can't decipher it all.
     
  17. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

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    I had an uncle who died in his 60's and was diagnosed with MS. He was wheelchair bound for at least a decade before he passed. Would that make me more likely to have MS than the general population? How would one know if they have CFS or MS? Or are they one in the same? Lately I've had Sun sensitivity and vision issues. Brain Fog has increased in the last few months.
     
  18. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    Most docs are clueless but say CFS if they don't know what else causes your fatigue. If they believe you and don't think it's psychiatric.

    With the family history, I guess a good doc will order MRIs for you. Doctors would diagnose MS if you had the white stuff (which means demylineation) show up on MRIs.
     
  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I think there was a study showing that something like 30% of MS patients started off with an ME/CFS diagnosis. So just having ME/CFS means you have much higher than normal odds of having MS.
     
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  20. Old Salt

    Old Salt Rowing the boat

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    Shell, have tried the herbal route, such as Hawthorne, L-Carnitine, Omega 3's etc, for your heart?
     

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