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SIBO / Dysbiosis herbal treatment

Discussion in 'The Gut: De Meirleir & Maes; H2S; Leaky Gut' started by Aubry, Sep 1, 2017.

  1. Aubry

    Aubry Senior Member

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    Hey all,

    Since two months I am on the SIBO (+Dysbiose) herbal protocol:
    - FC Cidal (Biotics) 2x2/day
    - Disbiocide (Biotics) 2x2/day
    - Caprystatin 2x2/day

    During this treatment I also did 14 days Avelox because I had very high Bacteroidetes (40%)
    I am still feeling like crap most of the days and I notice it very good 20 minutes after I took the herbs.
    Should I continue this herbals?
    PS: my tongue got really black after 3 weeks of Ciprofloxacin for Prostatitis infection (this was June 2017)
     
  2. jpcv

    jpcv Senior Member

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    SE coast, Brazil
    Do you also take probiotics?
     
  3. Aubry

    Aubry Senior Member

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    Bio-kult probiotics 2x1/day

    Ingrediënts:
    Probioticumculturen: Bacillus subtilis PXN 21, Bifidobacterium spp. (B. bifidum PXN 23, B. breve PXN 25, B. infantis PXN 27, B. longum PXN 30), Lactobacillus spp. (L. acidophilus PXN 35, L. delbrueckii ssp. bulgaricus PXN 39, L. casei PXN 37, L. plantarum PXN 47, L. rhamnosus PXN 54, L. helveticus PXN 45, L. salivarius PXN 57), Lactococcus lactis ssp. lactis PXN 63, Streptococcus thermophilus PXN 66], cellulose (vulstof), plantaardige capsule (hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose).

    Every capsule:
    Minimal 2 billion probiotica micro-organisms per capsule (2 x 109KVE/capsule)
     
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  4. Aubry

    Aubry Senior Member

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    Nowadays my tongue is almost pink again (2,5 months after finishing Ciprofloxacin 21 days)
     
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  5. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Hi @Aubry

    • How are you feeling now?
    • How many bottles of FC Cidal and Dysbiocide did you have to go through?
    • It's my understanding that FC Cidal is more for fungal infections, and Dysbiocide is more for bacterial infections... Do you know if this is true?

    thanks.
     
  6. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Where did you get this protocol from? KDM? Do you have special "high bacteroides" symptoms?
     
  7. Aubry

    Aubry Senior Member

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    Unfortunatly the SIBO herbal protocol (which I took 6 months non stop following guidelines of KDM) did much much harm on my micro biome. This will be the worst MSA test result since the start of my treatment 3 years ago.
     
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  8. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Hey Aubry- Are you on a low carb diet? A low carb diet is very important. I think it's also very important at some point in treating dysbiosis to start taking prebiotics to help increase the number of healthy probiotic bacteria in the gut.

    My understanding is that prebiotics are better than probiotics because when we take probiotics, they don't stay in the gut more than a week or 2.

    Where feeding the good bacteria that are already well established on the gut wall with prebiotics increases their numbers, pushing out the bad bacteria and therefore greatly improves gut health (i.e.-leaky gut).

    I started to feel worse after several months on an herbal protocol for my gut. I started adding in prebiotic fibers and noticed a significant improvement in how I felt and I am now improving consistently again.:)

    Jim
     
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  9. unicorn7

    unicorn7

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    Hi Jim, which prebiotics do you take?

    You took rifaximine as well right? Did you take prebiotics during rifaximine/herbal treatment, or afterwards? or pulsed?
     
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  10. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Hi unicorn7-

    I have been taking acacia fiber, which is helping significantly. Dr. David Perlmutter strongly recommends it and studies back up his recommendation.:)

    I did the first course of Rifaximin before the herbal treatment but didn't take prebiotics with it. Although I have read at least one study that said adding prebiotics to Rifaximin treatment gave better results. The second course of Rifaximin I took with my herbal protocol with no problems but again no prebiotics.

    I have been doing herbal treatment for about 8 months now. About 2 months ago I started to feel worse and I thought it might be because I was eating a very low prebiotic diet and starving out the good bacteria as well as the bad, that's when I added in the acacia fiber.

    I was afraid to take prebiotics because I had read that they can feed bad bacteria and I wanted to lower my bad bacterial load before adding them in.

    Jim
     
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  11. unicorn7

    unicorn7

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    I have pulsed rifaximine treatment and I would think that I could best take some prebiotics (thanks for the tip on acacia fiber!) during the rifaximine, but not during the time in between. So the prebiotics are getting food to the bacteria in my colon and the rifaximine is making sure the bacteria in my small intestines are not able to grow. I will discuss it with my physician, thanks!
     
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  12. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Anybody has experience with high bacteroides in stool analysis. Taking abx for 6 month now, and its only abit better. I am on a low carb diet which makes my gut better but does not cure the problems.
    My prebiotic experience is: what feeds the good bacterias may also feed the bad ones...
    Prebiotis doesnt really helps me and my gut
     
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  13. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    I think everybody is learning about how prebiotics effect the gut in dysbiosis. I have watched dozens of videos of functional medicine doctors that have been treating patients with SIBO and dysbiosis for years and they are often not sure if or when to add in prebiotics.

    There just haven't been enough studies done yet to make clear how much prebiotics work in the gut feeding bad bacteria. The research shows that they do increase the good bacteria though.

    From what I can gather, it all depends on the person and timing. Personally, I think prebiotics are very important and need to be added to ones diet at some point to increase good bacterial levels.

    The $64,000 question is "at what point"? That is where I think reason, experience and intuition all play a part in making the right decision.

    Jim
     
  14. Aubry

    Aubry Senior Member

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    I dont care about pre or probiotics! The only thing I know is that I have 0% firmicutes 60% bacteroidetes and for the rest almost zero normal flora. I will prob die if I dont get some fecal transplants! This treatment really ruined me like never before and I am really really mad. I will do anything in my power that this wont happen ever again to other patients.
     
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  15. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Hey Aubry I'm very sorry for your condition.. You say you ruined your gut only form the herbal ABX? Or also the other ones?
    I thought that Metronidazole/Ornidazol/Tinidazol helped you for decreasing bacteroides?
    What does KDM say to this results?
     
  16. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    Which treatment do you mean? KDM? And what did you take exactly?
     
  17. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    On the top of this page you can see his herbal protocol form KDM
     
  18. MartinDH

    MartinDH Senior Member

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    I thought this would be another, because he says he is doing it for about two months whereas "Unfortunatly the SIBO herbal protocol (which I took 6 months non stop following guidelines of KDM)"... ?!?
     
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  19. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    The 2 month quote was posted on september 1. The 6 month quote was posted today, over 3 months later.

    He also did at least 2 courses of very powerful antibiotics in the last 6 months, totaling 5 weeks.

    Jim
     
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  20. Banana94

    Banana94 Senior Member

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    Black tongue sounds for me like a fungal infection, maybe aspergillus niger....?¿
    But the Ciprofloxacin has nothing to do with the dysbiosis treatment, maybe this one caused some damage to your gut.
    I dont know why KDM gave you Avelox for high bacteroides.
    I also have very high bacteroides (45%) Red labs) and he told me that he‘s no looking forward to give me some kind of fluorchinolone.
    I had Azithromycin then Rifaximin and now Ornidazol... hope it kills me bacteroides....!!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2017 at 4:34 AM

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