1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
New Exercise Study Brings Both Illumination and Questions
Simon McGrath looks at new objective evidence of abnormal response to exercise in ME/CFS patients, and the questions that researchers are still trying to answer ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Shifting from SMP to Active protocol

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by madietodd, Jan 10, 2012.

  1. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes:
    1,603
    East Coast, USA
    After 9 months on the SMP with no results, I'm shifting to Freddd's protocol. I stopped all of the SMP supplements 2 days ago. I'm taking the Douglas labs B-complex (because I finished my other B), which has metafolin in it, but no other products from either protocol. I plan to start Freddd's protocol fully after I see my naturopath early next week.

    I'm interested in testing myself re. paradoxical folate deficiency. [I had started juicing a ton of green veggies, stopped abruptly 2 days ago, and felt a lot better the next morning.] Is that something I can do by taking metafolin while significantly lowering my intake of folate? Or does it somehow reveal itself once I'm on the full protocol?

    Freddd, did you ever start that folate thread? I couldn't find it. And I'm having a terrible time finding information about folate-free foods.

    Also, I'm a little confused about start-up. Do I remember correctly that it's best to start the full basic protocol all at once, except for adding in the ADb12 after a few weeks?

    I have all of the folate-free 5 star supplements you recommend. The only thing I'm lacking is potassium, which I'll buy before I start. Has your opinion changed, that it makes no difference which brand or type of potassium I buy?

    Thanks,

    Madie
  2. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes:
    885
    Salt Lake City
  3. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes:
    885
    Salt Lake City
    Hi Madie,

    Freddd, did you ever start that folate thread? I couldn't find it. And I'm having a terrible time finding information about folate-free foods.

    I started an ALPHA version for collection of symptom information in free form. After I see those results I will do a more targeted and refined standarizied format.

    You won't find a lot of folate free foods. So moderation is the solution. The food is only a problem for those who have confirmed a folinic paradoxical folate deficiency.


    Also, I'm a little confused about start-up. Do I remember correctly that it's best to start the full basic protocol all at once, except for adding in the ADb12 after a few weeks?

    So am I. The basics, b-complex, minerals, can all be started at once the day before mb12 and others or the same day. Potassium must be on hand even if not started right away. The adb12/mb12/Metafolin can be all started at once or mb12 and Metafolin intially, and then after startup slows down, adb12. On the other hand, adb12 started a couple of days ahead of the mb12 will get some of the startup out of the way before starting the mb12. Everybody seems to have had their own preference. I started up the mb12 9 months before the adb12 becasue I didin't know any better abd was looking for somethong to deal with a lot of problems that hadn't cleared. The Metafolin was started several years later due to availability problems.

    I'm interested in testing myself re. paradoxical folate deficiency. [I had started juicing a ton of green veggies, stopped abruptly 2 days ago, and felt a lot better the next morning.] Is that something I can do by taking metafolin while significantly lowering my intake of folate?

    Yes, lower the folate. Take a dose of Metafolin before food AND with food. I take 3200mcg on wakeup and at bedtime.

    [I had started juicing a ton of green veggies, stopped abruptly 2 days ago, and felt a lot better the next morning.
    That does sound about right. The first dose of Metafolin might do even more. Good luck.
  4. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes:
    1,603
    East Coast, USA
    So....this week, before starting the whole protocol, I can stop eating green vegetables and cut back on fruits/veggies altogether, while taking 1 B-Complex (400mcg methylfolate) before breakfast, and then, say, a half a 800mcg Solgar Folate with food. Same again at lunch. That's a full dose for the day. So, what reaction means what? What has to happen for me to go "Bingo! Paradox!" Or.........no paradox!

    EDIT: I see on your thread you say to trial metafolin alone for a while, then trial folinic acid, then metafolin again, etc, to see if there's a difference. So I would do my plan, above, for a few weeks, and then go back to a multivitamin with folic acid and pile on the greens, then back to metafolin? And see how I feel?

    Do I continue taking the metafolin (since it's part of your protocol) while adding the folic acid back in?
  5. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes:
    885
    Salt Lake City
    You may need 10 times as much methylfolate to reverse some of the things.

    Don't be in a rush to add in folic acid. Give yourself 6 months or so to get stablde and heal so. What's the rush. Stopping the greens and feeling better likely confirms it all ready. Don't be so eager to get sicker again. The big challange will be to determine how you can eat some veggies withou going into deficincy. If eating lots of green veggies is stopped and you feel better already, and presumabloy even better after Metafolin is added then you have proved you case pretty well. That would include folinic and folic acids as offenders.
  6. madietodd

    madietodd Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,424
    Likes:
    1,603
    East Coast, USA
    OK, great advice.

    Relatively speaking, I'm high functioning. So I'm thinking that a little change might go a long way with me, and that I could benefit by adding in supplements very slowly, to better understand what is doing what.

    I already feel better from just the metafolin in the B-Complex and stopping most fruit and veggies. I'm going to keep doing only this for a few days to see where it gets me. Are any of the cofactors necessary with this? Would potassium possibly be required, with just this addition?

    Then I have some choices. I could add the hydroxy B12 back in from Rich's protocol to see if the folic acid was keeping that protocol from working. I could instead go for the ADb12 and see what happens. Or I could jump into the whole active protocol without the ADb12 (yet)....but this choice involves making the most changes all at once, so it will be hard to tell what's going on.

    Thoughts?
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,539
    Likes:
    885
    Salt Lake City
    Hi Madie,

    If cell reproduction starts up in a major way the potassium could be needed very quickly. The adb12 and mb12 will move things forward far more rapidly than the hycbl and the other cofactors are needed for healing revgardless of which cobalamin if the cobalamin actually works.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page