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In Brief: Muscles and the 'myalgia' in ME/CFS
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Shallow/Infrequent Breathing

Discussion in 'Autonomic, Cardiovascular, and Respiratory' started by xks201, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. Calathea

    Calathea Darkness therapy

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    I don't have the problem full-time as you do, but sometimes I have trouble with breathing, usually referred to as "air hunger" with ME. A tip I picked up from another ME forum is to try a cup of tea, as caffeine is a bronchodilator. I have absolutely no idea whether it would be suitable for you, especially since it's a constant problem for you and you are having trouble with being too wired, but it might be worth a try as it's a relatively gentle thing to experiment with.
  2. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    thank you. caffeine seems hit or miss with me. i have a bronchodilator coming thought that i will keep u posted on.
  3. Sing

    Sing Senior Member

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    Dysautonomia and Shallow, Infrequent Breathing

    My disinclination to breathe often enough or deeply enough, day and night, increased along with other dysautonomic symptoms such as hypotension, a runny nose, etc. I look at my weak breathing behavior as part of dysautonomia, underregulation of the autonomic nervous system. This is my hypothesis. I don't know what the biology might be.
  4. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    That sounds like some form of histamine overload: Histamine and histamine intolerance.
  5. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    I used to experience air-hunger a lot before going into recovery, and I still have very mild signs (esp. after workout, often IMO mistaken for mild exercise induced asthma), but I have a "gut" feeling (no pun intended) that besides mito dysfunction and possibly but unlikely constricted airways the main culprit is inflammation in the gut spreading to the diaphragm and also inflammation of the ribs (chronic chostochondritis) which will make me automatically breathe shallower - I started to counteract when catching myself and realized that taking a deep breath is not a problem but feel slightly uncomfortable since everything is being extended, ribcage, abdomen, etc. and it makes the mild background inflammation more noticeable. I think experimenting with anti-inflammatories (natural and non-natural) could also help a lot. Interesting thread..
  6. jassysan

    jassysan

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    IN RESPONSE TO THE INITIAL QUESTION RE "AIR HUNGER"

    I dont know if any of the histaming theories are true, but I can tell you first hand what worked for me.

    I went to a lung specialist, and had pulmonary testing done TWICE breathing into this contraption, etc - no know cause for the severe shortness of breath i would get. A year went by, feeling like I was dyine, unable to talk - or I would feel like I had no air! Ended up in the ER because I collapsed was short of breath, by face was white, BP through the roof, put on oxygen - then sent home: NO KNOWN CAUSE.

    I DO NOT GET THIS ANYMORE!! WHY??? ...... SALT WATER. It has been a miracle. I literally never get the frightning "air hunger" ( that is the worst feeling ever, it so scary!!) I also have coconut water, but its the salt that really did it. You have to have a lot though. I tried it a long time ago a d dismissed it as "not working" but realised it was just too little. AND it has to be the right kind! I had a relapse and was so confused why I was getting the air hunger again - then I realised it was because the new salt I bough was not "unrefined".

    The salt has to be "unrefined" "sun dried", take 1/2 tsp in the morning in water, and 1/2 tsp in the afternoon AT LEAST.

    I do not know all the science behind it, and frankly I dont really care. IT WORKS. I spent a year researching all kinds of lungs disorders- i thought i had myasthenia gravis, acidosis, no answers.... its crazy how something so simple can be so life changing.

    PLEASE TRY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Cassandra68 and SickOfSickness like this.
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, jassysan.

    If salt water helped, it suggests that you had low total blood volume--hypovolemia. This is common in ME/CFS. According to my hypothesis, it is caused by glutathione depletion in the hypothalamus/pituitary. Some results of this are low secretion of antidiuretic hormone and low/unregulated secretion of ACTH. The ACTH problem lowers the secretion of aldosterone by the adrenal glands. The combination of low antidiuretic hormone and low aldosterone causes loss of too much water from the blood into the urine via the kidneys, and even though the person is thirsty and drinks a lot of fluid, they do not keep up with the water loss, so that the blood volume continues to be low. Ingesting more salt has an osmotic effect in the kidneys, so that more water is retained in the blood, and the total blood volume rises.

    Best regards,

    Rich
    Cassandra68 likes this.
  8. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

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    Interestingly, I have this same exact symptom. I also agree with your interpretation.
  9. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    The best natural salt has many trace minerals.

    Personally I have myaglias from a small accident. I feel sure my myalgias include small muscles in the solar plexus area (and above) and core being stuck (shortened). After a lot of myofascial release therapy, they are becoming more unstuck, and it feels better to take a normal or deep breath. However from so many years, I learned to breathe shallowly, so now if I take a good breath, it feels like too much. At the same time, it feels wonderful in the air hunger sense. I barely can remember from anatomy class. There are some receptors or muscles in that area. If they aren't being active, that is supposed to be telling your brain you're not getting enough air. Now if I try and take a normal or deep breath, mine are getting the signals they should. I'm in the relearning stage, to give up the shallow breathing altogether. First, I had to get the area unstuck.
  10. mellster

    mellster Marco

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    Hey SOS, can you tell me more about the myalgias and the scientific relationship to breathing? Thanks and cheers

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