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Severe Reaction To Niacin

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Changexpert, Mar 14, 2015.

  1. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    I took 100 mg of niacin after diner to verify that I have high histamine. Since high histamine generally means undermethylation, I wanted to prepare myself before getting the genetic profile from 23andme.

    Within 5 minutes of consumption, my heart felt like it was about to explode and my face got extremely hot. I could not breathe easily either. Fortunately, initial symptoms went away within 20 seconds. It's been 30 minutes and my entire body is red like Hell Boy. Wow... I thought I was going to ER at first.

    Has anybody experienced something similar? Lesson learned is, if you turn red easily from alcohol, do not attempt to try niacin. I knew that 100 mg was not a low dose, but I think 50 mg would have had similar effects on my body.
     
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  2. Sushi

    Sushi Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Yep, scary until I realized the cause. They say you can safely move up from a very small dose to a higher dose, but I haven't tried it.
     
  3. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    Because histamine from mast cells lowered your blood pressure and your heart compensated by pumping harder and faster.
    Because histamine and prostaglandins from mast cells create the flush.
    Because histamine causes bronchoconstriction. You might get a similar reaction from being in cold water.
    Yes, I certainly have. I don't mind it at all. Btw, methylated B12 and folate did nothing for me. But 500mg of quercetin abolishes the flush by 90%.

    If you had tried more niacin an hour or so later, you wouldn't have flush nearly so much because the signalling chemicals need time to be replenished first.

    Can you drag a fingernail across your sternum and make a line?

    mastcellmaster.com is where Theohardes is at.

    Have you seen the Mast Cell forum here?
     
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  4. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    The niacin flush is not mediated through histamine release, but prostaglandins.

    Just about everyone will flush from 100mg niacin. It cannot be used to diagnose your histamine or methylation status.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2015
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  5. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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  6. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    Yes, I was aware of that the flush was caused by PGD2. One question I have is does continued use of niacin deplete PGD2 level? I am losing a lot of hair at the moment, and found that elevated PGD2 is one of the contributing factors of hair loss. If niacin causes flushes via PGD2 mechanism, shouldn't it deplete PGD2 level eventually?
     
  7. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I don't think it can be truly depleted,but if you take niacin several times daily, the flush will likely be milder.
     
  8. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I have been wondering for a long time about increased inflammation from serotonin (a la Ray Peat). I guess ammonia might be involved [in serotonin breakdown?]
     
  9. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/327/3/665.full

    http://www.doctoryourself.com/hoffer_cardio.html
    Niacin, Coronary Disease and Longevity
    by Abram Hoffer, M.D., Ph.D. (the famous orthomolecular guy)

    Most only flush only head and neck. Someone who flushes terribly has more going on than usual.
     
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I guess you didn't read the paper you quoted:

    And from another paper:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2779993/
     
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  11. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    I see the word suggest, which is not enough to make the blanket claim that histamine is not involved.

    The paper says that this or that study implies or suggests one way or the other, and even begins with "Niacin is thought to..." . No blanket claim is made.

    I see from the 2nd paper: "suggesting that niacin-induced flushing is not mediated by mast cells". Yet not only does my often repeated personal experience but also Theoharides' body of work say that mast cell stabilizers abolish or greatly inhibit the niacin flush. Are you claiming that V S Kamanna, S H Ganji, and M L Kashyap using the word "suggesting' overrides that? Or that quercetin et al have other effects beyond those on MCs? I suppose that's possible. Btw, it ends with "providing further support", not "proof".

    Hoffer spent his life on these things, whether he is right or wrong he will have studied all the evidence available at his time - and he said it was involved.

    All in all, I'd say that there is not sufficient reason to make the blanket claim that histamine is not involved. I suppose you could also say that there is not sufficient reason to make the blanket claim that histamine is definitely involved. That would be fair - though I'd be hesitant to say that histamine is not involved in anything regarding vasodilation without a lot of proof.
     
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  12. Sherlock

    Sherlock tart cherry etc. for joints, insomnia

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    Quercetin attenuates inflammation in human macrophages and adipocytes exposed to macrophage-conditioned media.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224828

    Quercetin is equally or more effective than resveratrol in attenuating tumor necrosis factor-α–mediated inflammation and insulin resistance in primary human adipocytes
    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/6/1511.long

     
  13. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I suppose it would be the same with niacin?
     
  14. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Not sure…but I think it is connected to mast cell issues.
     
  15. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    I shouldn't have to explain to you that no blanket claims are made in science. All you are going to get is "the data suggests", not "this proves". This is because tomorrow new data might come to light, which falsifies earlier hypotheses. Nothing can ever be proven beyond any doubt.

    In case you are referring to my statement that histamine is not involved, I will restate my comment in scientific language for you:

    The data does not suggest involvement of histamine in niacin-induced flushing.

    I don't know why they write that, mast cells do secrete PGD2 to my knowledge. Quercetin likely works by inhibiting PGD2 and serotonin release:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18831918

    You are welcome to put your faith in Hoffer et al., I won't.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2015
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  16. Changexpert

    Changexpert Senior Member

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    FWIW, I've been using niacin for four days now and my personal experiences agree with PGD2 approach, not histamine approach. You would probably be wondering how can you tell? The simple answer to that is hair loss.

    Scientists have shown that PGD2 level in the scalp is elevated for balding men. PGD2 downregulates hair growth, which impedes nutrient flow to the scalp and hair shafts. There are two receptors that release PGD2 reaction, PD1 and PD2. PD2 receptor is the one responsible for downregulation of hair growth. Fortunately, when niacin causes flush via PGD2 reaction, only PD1 receptor is involved, the one not related to hair loss. As a result, the kind of stinging sensation in the scalp I get from niacin flush is totally different from itching sensation that histamine provides.

    Whenever I consume high histamine food like fermented food, my scalp would itch so much in an effort to break down histamine. This never occurs with niacin flush. Also, this concept applies to the entire body, not just the scalp. My body has not broken out with rashes everywhere. In fact, I have not been scratching my legs during my sleep since I took niacin.

    Soruces
    http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/4/126/126ra34
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3319975/
     
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  17. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member

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    My reaction to niacin has been totally unpredictable. I took it every day for a period of months and there was no way to tell when I would have no reaction and when I would have a massive reaction. It was like playing "niacin roulette."
     
  18. Marlène

    Marlène Senior Member

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    I felt like I woke up after having too much anesthetics when I took 100 mg of niacine the first time. Felt like dying.
     
  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    How about inositol? It makes me feel great, but I just can't stand the itchyness so I can't take it :grumpy:
     
  20. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I think you have been unnecessarily rude, arrogant and pedantic lately. I don't think you need to be all that to make a point.

    Please remember that there are real people behind the postings, and they are ill, and some are very caring, like Sherlock is, and he hasn't posted at PR anymore after your rudeness, and I miss his contributions.

    Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, there is histamine release from taking niacin.

     
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