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Severe Night-Time Crashes

Discussion in 'Post-Exertional Malaise, Fatigue, and Crashes' started by seth, Sep 10, 2013.

  1. seth

    seth

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    I've had CFS symptoms on & off for many years, including a 2 year period where I could barely work at all.

    These days I have enough daytime energy to work, play, and live fairly normal. But every night, right around 9-10PM, I get a sudden-onset crash, where without warning, all the energy drains from my body, my brain gets foggy and can't think or articulate too well, my arms feel weak to the point of painful, and my balance gets stumbly enough to make me bump into the furniture on the way to my bedroom. And I go into a terrible emotional state, filled with relentless anxiety & dread, even though everything currently in my life is fine and I have nothing to be anxious about.

    Almost like a severe low-blood-sugar attack, except it can occur even when I just ate a full well-balanced meal 30 minutes ago, so...can't be that. Maybe cortisol levels, I don't know. Once all those symptoms have kicked in, I can't fall asleep naturally...too much physical and psychic pain...so I often resort to a small dose of Klonopin to help me. It works (it takes an anguished hour) and most of the symptoms give way to feeling fairly peaceful again about an hour later, and after a full night's sleep, I'm fine all through the next day till I crash again the following night.

    I don't want to keep taking Klopnopin, and the only other remedy seems to be to hit the sack around 8-9PM, before the crash strikes. I can do that, but it's hard 'cause I enjoy my evening activities with my family and don't want to make an abrupt exit from the movie or conversation just 'cause the clock says it's 8:30

    Anyone else have this, or know what the cause could be?
  2. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    Wellllll....don't be so sure. Are you taking your blood sugar levels? I had exactly what you were describing and it turned out to be severe reactive hypoglycemia (also called hyperinsulemia). So yes within a half hour of eating steak and mashed potatoes, I'm lying on my inlaw's livingroom floor thinking I'm going to die, anxiety through the roof, etc.

    So I'd recommend you get something like this meter (should be avail at any drugstore): http://www.amazon.com/Abbott-Precis...8936444&sr=8-4&keywords=precision extra meter
    And see what your blood sugar levels are doing when you are feeling these feelings. If it's below 70 mg/dL even after a meal (mine has gone as low as 40. 30's is when you pass out) then that may be an issue for you.

    There are a small subset of us with ME/CFS here who are also really really reactive like this. If it turns out this is the case with you, ping me and I'll tell you what worked for me. Mainly going way low carb, eating small protien/fat meals through out the day.

    Hope it's helpful.
    ahimsa likes this.
  3. SOC

    SOC Moderator and Senior Member

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    If the glucose testing doesn't turn up a problem, consider some form of orthostatic hypotension. For some people, eating a normal to large meal can cause sudden low blood pressure within 30 minutes. If you tend to have low blood volume, as many of us do, you could be getting low by the end of the day and then the meal aggravates the situation enough to give the symptoms you describe. The "anxiety" may, in fact, be a rapid heart rate from your body's efforts to get more blood flow to your brain.

    If you monitor your BP and HR before, during, and after these episodes, you might get a clue if OH is a problem.
    ahimsa, Sparrowhawk and alex3619 like this.
  4. seth

    seth

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    I've never taken blood sugar levels so far, in my life. I've had doctors take them, and I've had doctors do an adrenal-cortisol cycle test, but they never reported anything notable. And I already eat pretty impeccably - all organic, mostly protein and greens, low carbs & sugars.

    Still, if you think it's worth it, I'll order a blood test meter and check it out. 3 immediate questions that pop up are:
    - If it's hypoglycemia, how come I only experience those crashes at 9-10PM at night, and not at other times during the day?
    - How come this crashing problem lasts a few months and then totally goes away, on it's own, for as much as 6-12 months before flaring up again, if it's hypoglycemia?
    - If it's hypoglycemia, how come taking a very small does of Klonopin (.25) relieves most of the symptoms. I can see where Klonopin would help with the anxiety & mood part, but if it was true hypoglycemia, it shouldn't help with the intense weakness and crashing feeling...yet it does.
  5. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    I didn't catch that you had this come and go, so I can't explain that, was just offering a possibility for you to explore.

    When my reactive hypoglycemia started really hammering me, I got it either right after breakfast, or after dinner. The rest of the day I was essentially self-medicating by drinking juice or whatever all day to keep the blood sugar up. That may not apply to you.

    I assumed that the Klonopin was just masking the panic symptoms, not that it was addressing the blood sugar issue directly.

    Again, this may not be your issue, but I thought I would offer from my experience because it sounded close enough to what you were experiencing to be possible.
  6. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Seth, it's great that you are well enough to work, paly etc now, but sorry you are still having this night time crash. I certainly don't have any answers, but your post reminds me of how i feel if i stay up too late (for me) I WOULD get a crash like this every night too if i stayed up beyond my safe limit (for me its 10-11pm) and if i am not asleep by midnight then i also get horrible anxiety, insomnia and jittery muscles amongst other nasty feelings. I am lucky in a way that it is not till later in the evening than you, but on the other hand i rest a lot in the day and am still partly housebound - no where near close to working again. It may just be that that is the time you hit your wall and then all energy is drained - you have gone beyond your personal envelope for the day.

    Thigs you could try might include going to bed before it happens for a while (and by a while i mean a few months) to see if you can then extend it - i am presuming that this problem could be corrected by not going over your threshold for some time and then trying to stretch your threshold.

    For me i have wondered if it is a cortisol problem or blood sugar - i have only had conventional diabetes tests at GPS (all fine) and a morning cortisol blood draw (all fine). I also wonder if it is one of those interplay issues between, adrenals, hormones, blood sugar etc all interacting.

    I have had to learn not to push my stying up time - i may do it once or twice a year for a speical occasion like new years eve, but it is so painful when this happens to me and nearly always sets off a few bad days of insomnia and feeling wired that i cant bear to do it. Eveb recent;y when my activity levels increased in the day i still had to be very strict about bed time.

    Sorry not to have any answers, but i thoufgh it might help to share my experience.
    Take care,
    Justy
  7. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    No idea if it is hypoglycemia, but a way to find out is a 3 hour glucose tolerance test or get a meter from the pharmacy and check yourself every hour after eating a lot of glucose. (you have to fast after taking the glucose). The body has other methods of kicking in glucose if it drops too far, so the trick is to catch it before that kicks in--usually 3 or 4 hours after eating. This is why morning glucose is often normal when you are actually hypoglycemic.

    This was true for me--normal in the morning but on a 3 hour (or was it 4 hour?) glucose tolerance test it dropped to 4o.

    Hope you figure this out.

    Best,
    Sushi
    Sparrowhawk likes this.
  8. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Seth,

    I have been suffering CFS/ME symptoms since 1969, and now 2013 it’s never-ending.

    I find the nighttime the same and I hang out to 11pm before going to bed, and the depending on the environment around our home will decide what sort of a night I am going to endure.

    Since wireless technology began in the late 1990s in my country, is when my CFS/ME began to get worse, and now it’s seen as FMS.

    Since smart metres have been installed in the power boxes my symptoms became worse, as everyone in my area began to go wireless on all communications phones and Internet, my symptoms became worse.

    I removed all wireless and electrical appliances and devices from my home, such as disabled all Wi Fi from my laptop and printers and only work USB and cable. My modem/router is cable and all Wi Fi disabled.

    Removed DECT phone and replaced it with an analogue phone, removed electrical bedside lamps and radio/clock and electric blanket from bed.

    I can’t get away from my next-door neighbour’s radiation, but at least it’s safe within our home.

    All your symptoms are exactly the same as radio wave sickness, microwave sickness and electro hypersensitivity.

    Any form of microwave radiation causes neurological, cardiovascular and haemodynamic disturbances and the symptoms are: headaches, fatigue, perspiring, dizziness, menstrual disorders, irritability, agitation, tension, drowsiness, sleeplessness, depression, anxiety, forgetfulness and lack of concentration and coordination.

    If you have wireless set-up in your home, DECT phone, mobile phone, then turn them OFF at night, even though your next-door neighbor might get you. The time period could a time that the smart metres in your area may turn on or other power switching signaling down the power lines and into your house wiring.

    I find that melatonin helps before going to bed.
  9. seth

    seth

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    Many thanks to all who replied. I must edit my original post, as the crashes are no longer confined to the later hours. I have now had several horrible daytime crashes within an hour or two of waking, even after 8+ hours of sleep, with debilitating symptoms that last half or all day.

    The prominent symptoms are:
    - an onset of weakness & soreness in arms, back & spine
    - a loss of coordination, "stumbly" feeling
    - a huge flood of anxiety & self-unsureness (not characteristic, very confident & comfortable socially)

    Interestingly, not a huge amount of debilitating fatigue or lack of normal energy needs. As example, when it hit this morning at 11AM, I was set to go to our local outdoor farmer's market with my wife, and I went anyway, spending over an hour roaming the market and lugging bags heavily-laden with produce, back and forth to our car several blocks away. No problem having enough energy & strength. But the whole time I felt uncharacteristically separate & alien in my contacts with people, uncoordinated, and a raging anxiety/pain feeling throughout my body/mind that made me feel like I was about to explode, pass out, or die, or all of them.

    None of them happened and I drove us safely home. Although the symptoms raged on for hours, I declined to take a Klonopin 'cause part of me wanted to watch and see where it went. After 3 hours, anxiety subsided, loss of coordination subsided, but body weakness/soreness remained, along with feeling very drained & tired. And the anxiety sort of morphed into an almost suicidal depression for about an hour, then that subsided too.

    Any feedback from folks with similar symptoms is welcomed. I'm watching it over the next few days, both from a "something's medically wrong with me, and I need to find out what" vantage point; and from a "it's not a medical collapse, but rather a spiritual cleansing & growth" vantage point...since I believe nothing happens in our "illness history" that isn't part of a greater spiritual & karmic awakening. Thanks & blessings to all.
  10. taniaaust1

    taniaaust1 Senior Member

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    [/QUOTE]
    I thinking the same as justy.. you are just going out of your tollerance range before things start to crash. One way to deal with that if one crashes each night at 9-10 after work and doesnt want to go to bed earlier for the night each night, would be instead to just got to bed for 1hr right after work as soon as you get home, go there and just completely rest (eyes shut) relaxing for an hour. That "may" be enough to avoid a crash later on in the evening (you may need more then 1 hr rest after a full day work to prevent symptoms from coming in later).

    Even if this now is happening at other times, it could still mean you have reached your limit and now going past it (some days it could be reached quicker then other days, it all may depend on what exactly the activity you are doing is.. walking back and forwards to a car carrying groceries is fairly strenuous ..even if you arent feeling weak etc at the time, with ME it is very likely to have reprecussions and have one feeling unwell in some ways afterwards). Anxiety hitting us can be a symptom of us overdoing it or needing to lay down
  11. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Senior Member

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    I don't know enough about Klonopan to know if this is relevant, but have you eliminated the possibility that these symptoms you have may be side effects of or withdrawal signs of any of the meds you are on, including that one? Just ticking off the possibilities.
  12. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Seth,



    I was flabbergasted when I read the side effects of Kolopin on this site:

    http://www.drugs.com/sfx/klonopin-side-effects.html

    The side effects are enormous, and no wonder you are suffering.



    I did share with you of the same side effects I suffer from the microwave radiation and electrical fields. I use to have crashes like during the day, but after I moved away from an area that was in a close proximity of high tension power lines and transformers I improved.



    I found that when I shop at large shopping centres or market places, or visit restaurants or pubs or movies with my wife I suffer extremely from all the radiation from the mobile phones that all other people are carrying with them and the Wi Fi set-up within those areas.



    But, since I began a supplement programme and detox, and no medication whatsoever, I am able to survive.



    Also, I would advise you to take a good look at what medication you are taking, are you only taking Kolopin?



    The one things that most sufferers of any debilitating disorder is that they don’t realize that the body’s pH is very important, and we find that most sufferers are acidic. Once you get the body’s pH back into source (7pH), the body will begin to heal, and then all supplements that we take will begin to be absorbed correctly.



    If our RBCs are also out of whack, then assimilations of nutrients and the carrying of oxygen to all parts of the body will be a complete failure.



    I’ve been struggling with supplementation now for seven months and I haven’t felt that much better, but there has been an improvement, and my naturopath was pleased because his test he did on my blood and urine showed an improvement and he was stoked. I still suffer extreme electro sensitivity, but I have noticed the slight improvement, but didn’t get as stoked as my naturopath.



    When you view your own RBCs under an electronic microscope you really do appreciate the changes in the movement of your RBCs. 12 months ago they were all clumped together, and now they are all floating around separated, but there are some ugly ones roaming around and closely followed by WBCs.



    Do you suffer from burning, tingling sensations of the face, arms, legs, ankles, and feet? Since I began taking a new supplement there has been some improvement. Magnesium is very important and most sufferers of debilitating disorders are magnesium deficient.



    Blessings to you and I pray that your spiritual search will find your answers.
  13. seth

    seth

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    Thanks, Wifi, for your very caring & detailed reply. Klonopin side effects are not my problem. Sorry I wasn't clearer, but I am not a regular user of this drug, I actually only take Klonopin very rarely. Across this whole year, I've taken maybe 6 tablets of lowest dose.

    Thanks for your insights about microwave radiation and electrical fields; I know some people are very sensitive to this. My body pH is pretty good, because I eat a very alkaline diet, mostly organic greens & light amounts of protein. And I have done live-cell microscopy and seen my RBC's, sometimes clumped up, sometimes free-flowing, but that doesn't seem to be the key factor in my symptoms. I hope we both find the answers we need to feel great again!
  14. Wifi123

    Wifi123 Senior Member

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    Hi Seth,

    I've discovered that when our RBCs are clumped and not free and loose, they are metalised. When one of the elements of the RBC are deficient the cell walls break down and allows metals to enter the RBC and because of the unlike signs attract, the RBCs come together. This is another reason why we need to detox and cleanse our body of metals. I had all my amalgam fillings removed a few years back, and I struggle removing all the silver and mercury from my body. The other metal that is released into my body is from a hip implant, cobalt and chromium. All of these metals act as an antenna for microwave sensitive people, but also cause the many symptoms of most ill people. All I want is for those people who live around to turn OFF their phones, wireless computers and smart metres.

    Regards

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