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Serotonin the new 'Cure All'

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by heapsreal, Jun 12, 2014.

  1. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Citalopram
     
  2. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    Celexa. thanks.
     
  3. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    I had a really bad time with Citalopram, cuased my OI, messed up my sleep and generally caused havoc
     
    justy likes this.
  4. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Making the most of it

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    I had a very bad reaction to just one Zoloft tablet (SSRI) about 15 years before ME. Never again.
     
    justy likes this.
  5. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    I wish I knew what it was that made M.E patients more prone to problems with SSRI's. I know Dr Myhill has mentioned this, but is there actually any research to back this up - I know a lot of us report problems, but that's anecdotal...
     
    Wildcat likes this.
  6. Wildcat

    Wildcat Senior Member

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    I am sure that a few years ago one of the american doctors wrote that ME sufferers should not be prescribed SSRIs due to such high rates of bad side effects. Can't remember which doctor.
    .

    .
     
    justy likes this.
  7. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Its is strange because tryptophan and 5htp do increase serotonin levels but seem to have very different effects to ssir's. I wonder if ssri's increase serotonin way about what we can do with supplements, maybe some type of built in pathway of metabolizing supps that only increases the levels so far??

    Also if u look into thye pharmacology of ssri's, some will also have effects on other neurotransmitters, an example i can think of is that zoloft does have mild dopamine reuptake qualities. probably find other affect other neurotransmitters slightly in non ME people but maybe more so in ME people. From what i have read lexapro is the most pure when it comes to affecting serotonin and not other neurotransmitters. I have found low doses lexapro and zoloft in the past helped me mood wise when in a hole but didnt improve energy or help pain or any other ME symptoms really. could be could for those with alot of emotional stress going on. eg lexapro a normal dose is 10-20mg, i think cfsers should start at 2.5mg, move to 5mg if they need to and no adverse effects.
     
    minkeygirl likes this.
  8. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    So I found this article which might explain a few things for us.

    It seems both IL-1 and TNF increase NREM and suppress REM sleep, through different mechanisms. One of these mechanism is an interaction with the 5-HT (serotonin) system:

    So in short, IL-1 stimulates 5-HT which helps to increase NREM and suppress REM. If our IL-1 is already high (due to infections), 5-HT is already stimulated, and taking more 5-HT will only make matters worse, by increasing NREM and suppressing REM sleep even further.
     
    heapsreal and Leopardtail like this.
  9. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    It was only needed if I over stimulated the methylation pathways. Just to make the de tox less intense and let the system cool off a bit. If you over do the niacin it stops methylation, I used a small dose to reduce the intensity.
     
  10. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    @Martial yeah I had read niacin stopped methylation. So far I seem to be ok. I'm upping to 1000 mcg Friday and will go up 200 more the next week.

    I have a doc appt the 11 th. I'm feeling a bit of the anger but not like it was. That part sucks.
     
  11. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

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    SSRI had no positive effect at all just made me sleep and sleep more, stopped thinking about anything, watched TV all day.

    Feel sorry for the people who have to be on these drugs. Can't image that life is great on them yet often people claim they do great things for anxiety, depression, energy level etc.. I am a bit skeptical.
     
  12. minkeygirl

    minkeygirl Narcissism = lack of self awareness

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    I watch TV all day long and I'm not on SSRI's. Sometimes its just this DD.
     
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  13. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    If I remember correctly Dr Cheney said SSRIs were very bad for people with ME/CFS because "they fried the brain" whereas he always seemed to recommend Klonopein as being helpful.

    Pam
     
  14. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    ME/CFS patients already do have a "fried brain", I'm not into SSRIs because they're useless incase of real serotonin deficiency and depression and they're really unhealthy, but I wouldnt say they fry your brain^^
     
  15. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    Can so relate to the "fried brain". Neurologically fried ?
     
  16. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    yes, neurological. Many of us CFS patients get defensive when called depressive, including myself because we think it's a purely psychological issue and whe have a physical problem.

    But now I know for sure that most if not all psychological issues have underlying physical abnormalities so a depressed patient can have CFS and the other way around too. Depression is infact a serotonin deficiency, which then leads to behavioural abnormalities, but at the core its a physical thing.

    I too have serotonin deficiency and since I was at a CFS clinic, the professor and leader of the clinic told me, that most CFS patients have a neurotransmitter abnormality. You can also read my signature link on that subject. I think that's a major aspect for us to look into
     
  17. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    I on the other hand suffer no depression whatsoever unless I am on the receiving end of problems created by the ignorance of others.
     
  18. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    • Difficulty concentrating, remembering details, and making decisions
    • Fatigue and decreased energy
    • Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, and/or helplessness
    • Feelings of hopelessness and/or pessimism
    • Insomnia, early-morning wakefulness, or excessive sleeping
    • Irritability, restlessness
    • Loss of interest in activities or hobbies once pleasurable, including sex
    • Overeating or appetite loss
    • Persistent aches or pains, headaches, cramps, or digestive problems that do not ease even with treatment
    • Persistent sad, anxious, or "empty" feelings
    • Thoughts of suicide, suicide attempts

    These are some of the official symptoms of depression and most of the CFS patients do have these
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  19. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    Hi @amaru7 I wasn't meaning psychologically "fried" I meant physiologically. I get heat and nerve like inflammation (feeling of inflammation) in my head and it feels like I am being "fried" in my head. Sorry, if I wasn't clear.

    I do get some depression when my physical symptoms are severe.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  20. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    Hey @rosie26 ya I understood you.

    To the subject, I seem to have a view that the majority of general ppl don't share.
    It is that most of the psychological conditions have a physiological underlying basis. If you just think about what neurotransmitters like Serotonin do, then it'd be obvious.

    And if you ever tried psychedelics, you get to experience first hand, how much of our perception and state of mind are actually influenced by chemical reactions. :alien:
     
    rosie26 likes this.

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