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Searching for liver congestion tips

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
513
Location
Europe
Hi all,

Most of my health problems (MCS, mold illness, CFS) have to do with my liver problems.
I have liver congestion plus a fatty liver.

I am searching for tips to deal with this congested liver. Does anyone have any experience dealing with these liver problems?

Currently I take choline bitrate for rasing choline and malic acid for the energy. Both gives me temporarily relief.

Thanks in advance.
 

xrayspex

Senior Member
Messages
1,111
Location
u.s.a.
some people like milk thistle tincture but I became sensitive to it, just feel sort of reactive to it like some foods, yuck
I use charcoal a lot to mop up toxins, helps, drink lots of water and dont take with supplements

some people like dandelion tea

I think simple is good, avoid meds, chems, and go easy on the supplements, low and slow and pulse like Dr Cheney advises

I am curious what others say as have been thinking I want to do more if possible...with MCS I just need to be cautious
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
In the past, I had MCS, I think it was from liver trouble brought on by iron overload. Of course there was CFS.
I used to be highly sensitive to mold, which was caused by copper deficiency.

I had a lot of liver pain brought on by a lesion. I believe the iron overload was causal.

I don't think I've had a fatty liver yet, because I've been lowering iron and increasing copper.

Here's a good article about high iron, low copper, and NAFLD :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342600/
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
513
Location
Europe
@xrayspex Thanks!
I react to milk thistle unfortunately. The reason could be that Milk thistle is very high in salicylates.
Will look into dandelion tea.

@Crux Thanks!
Which tests determine your iron overload? I have high iron saturation (51%) but a good ferritin level of 120 ug/L (range: 0 - 250).

How did you threat your high iron and low copper? Did you also took Zinc with it?
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Hello @jason30 - I take a lot of supps for my liver. Dandelion root, alpha lipoic acid, NAC, Acetyl carnitine, SAM-e, TMG, methylcobalamin and methylfolte.

Anything that improves methylation or helps to increase glutathione, helps the liver to detoxify toxins. All the things I have mentioned here are good for liver health.

Jim
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
Hi,

I had two iron panels done , 3 months apart. Each included : Serum Iron, Iron Saturation %, Serum Ferritin, TIBC, and UIBC.

My serum iron was in normal range. It shows recent iron intake.
First time, Iron Sat. was , 51 %.
Ferritin was 328 .
TIBC and UIBC were low, indicating iron overload.

I had been taking copper for a month, so, I'm sure the results would have been worse. ( history of symptoms )

After taking copper for 3 more months,
Iron Sat. % was 42,
Ferritin was 285, still too high
TIBC and UIBC moved up into normal range.

Apparently, copper normalized the iron panel, though ferritin was still high.

After the 2nd test, I began to take some supplemental iron chelators :

R-lipoic acid - ~ 60 mg. daily
Green tea - for tannin and EGCG* varying amounts.
Quercetin - 250 mg.
Melatonin - 1 mg. ( it chelates iron )
I eat foods with phytates and oxylates to chelate iron.

I take B12 and Zinc - They compete with iron in the intestines for absorption.
I take the copper and zinc separately so they won't compete.
B vitamins are needed for iron metabolism - I take a low dose B complex.

I vary the chelators amounts and skip some days here and there.

*I just tried EGCG alone this weekend, and had some bad insomnia. I forgot , it is strong. It can be hard on the liver in high amounts, so it may be better to just have a cup of green tea daily rather than straight EGCG.

- I take 2 mg. copper glycinate.
I may lower it because I've been eating copper foods more.

I would be more concerned with the elevated Transferrin Saturation % than the Ferritin. It's more indicative of iron overload .
 

Tammy

Senior Member
Messages
2,176
Location
New Mexico
What is your diet like? Animal fats really clog up the liver. I'm not saying you have to go vegan..........just consider cutting down to give the liver a break.
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
513
Location
Europe
Hello @jason30 - I take a lot of supps for my liver. Dandelion root, alpha lipoic acid, NAC, Acetyl carnitine, SAM-e, TMG, methylcobalamin and methylfolte.

Anything that improves methylation or helps to increase glutathione, helps the liver to detoxify toxins. All the things I have mentioned here are good for liver health.

Jim

Thanks @ljimbo423 , I will look into those.
What does L-carnitine for the liver? I have used L-carnitine in the past for inflammation, it worked really well.
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
513
Location
Europe
Hi,

I had two iron panels done , 3 months apart. Each included : Serum Iron, Iron Saturation %, Serum Ferritin, TIBC, and UIBC.

My serum iron was in normal range. It shows recent iron intake.
First time, Iron Sat. was , 51 %.
Ferritin was 328 .
TIBC and UIBC were low, indicating iron overload.

I had been taking copper for a month, so, I'm sure the results would have been worse. ( history of symptoms )

After taking copper for 3 more months,
Iron Sat. % was 42,
Ferritin was 285, still too high
TIBC and UIBC moved up into normal range.

Apparently, copper normalized the iron panel, though ferritin was still high.

After the 2nd test, I began to take some supplemental iron chelators :

R-lipoic acid - ~ 60 mg. daily
Green tea - for tannin and EGCG* varying amounts.
Quercetin - 250 mg.
Melatonin - 1 mg. ( it chelates iron )
I eat foods with phytates and oxylates to chelate iron.

I take B12 and Zinc - They compete with iron in the intestines for absorption.
I take the copper and zinc separately so they won't compete.
B vitamins are needed for iron metabolism - I take a low dose B complex.

I vary the chelators amounts and skip some days here and there.

*I just tried EGCG alone this weekend, and had some bad insomnia. I forgot , it is strong. It can be hard on the liver in high amounts, so it may be better to just have a cup of green tea daily rather than straight EGCG.

- I take 2 mg. copper glycinate.
I may lower it because I've been eating copper foods more.

I would be more concerned with the elevated Transferrin Saturation % than the Ferritin. It's more indicative of iron overload .

Thanks for your extensive reaction @Crux . Helps me a lot.
I'll do some new testing and see if I still have iron overload. And will look into the iron chelators.
 

jason30

Senior Member
Messages
513
Location
Europe
What is your diet like? Animal fats really clog up the liver. I'm not saying you have to go vegan..........just consider cutting down to give the liver a break.

Thanks @Tammy !
Didn't knew animal fats clogs up the liver. I am currently busy with changing my diet, wants more good fats and less carbs.
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Thanks @ljimbo423 , I will look into those.
What does L-carnitine for the liver? I have used L-carnitine in the past for inflammation, it worked really well.

Fats are broken down to fatty acids to be used as fuel by the mitochondria.
L-carnitine or Acetyl-l-carnitine, help transport fatty acids across the mitochondrial membrane to be used in the krebs cycle for energy, helping to lower fat levels.


Carnitine mediates the transport of medium/long-chain fatty acids across mitochondrial membranes, facilitating their oxidation with subsequent energy production; in addition, it facilitates the transport of intermediate toxic compounds out of the mitochondria preventing their accumulation

link


I've also seen a few studies where carnitine helped non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.
 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
This article from Dr. Berkson might be useful to you. He is/was known for helping people avoid liver transplants throught the use of ALA, Silymarin (milk thistle), selenium, and LDN. He also has this to say about lecithin and the liver:
If you find difficulty digesting the healthy fats in your meals it might be worth taking a teaspoon or so of lecithin granules with each meal – this should provide lasting relief from this problem.
...

Lecithin is a highly recommended liver cleanse diet supplement for those who want to lose body fat because it is a powerful emulsifier of fats that helps to remove fatty deposits from the body. Once these fats are emulsified they can be used for fuel or body maintenance, or can be delivered out of the body by the liver leaving the liver once again able to efficiently process fats and carbohydrates.

Lecithin is a liver cleanse diet supplement that has been used in Europe for decades in the treatment of alcoholic liver disease, but there have not been many well designed human studies to test lecithin’s effectiveness.
 

Basilico

Florida
Messages
948
I know I have the beginnings of some liver issues, since my liver enzymes are always mildly elevated even though I rarely drink alcohol and have a very healthy diet, so I'm always interested in things that can help the liver perform better. I suspect my husband also has some liver issues, since he often has trouble processing even low levels of alcohol, though his liver enzymes are always normal. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23643929

It has been widely hypothesized that one big issue for CFS patients is low glutathione levels, which is necessary for liver detoxification, among other very important things. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2596047/

To increase endogenous glutathione, my husband just started a new probiotic called Lactobacillus Fermentum. I started a post about it here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ione-improves-heart-health.52393/#post-868166.

Perhaps this probiotic is something you might want to consider taking.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Hello @jason30 - I take a lot of supps for my liver. Dandelion root, alpha lipoic acid, NAC, Acetyl carnitine, SAM-e, TMG, methylcobalamin and methylfolte.

Anything that improves methylation or helps to increase glutathione, helps the liver to detoxify toxins. All the things I have mentioned here are good for liver health.

Jim


Have you tried EGCG? what dosage?

ALA + Vitamin C (from Tapioca) have been amazing for clearing oxidative stress; SAM-e works, then poops out, plus it's hard on my stomach

Are you affected by damp weather? we're back to high humidity (98%) but we hardly ever have the dreaded combo of high heat + high damp here, so at least there's that :)
 

ljimbo423

Senior Member
Messages
4,705
Location
United States, New Hampshire
Have you tried EGCG?

Hi ebethc- I have tried egcg but I never really gave it a chance to see if it would help. I'm pretty sure I am TH2 dominant and egcg is suppose to increase TH2 immunity, so I didn't take it very long.

SAM-e works, then poops out, plus it's hard on my stomach

I had the same experience with SAM-e seemingly not working after a while. When I cut back on it though I feel noticeably worse, so it must be doing something.:) I take the enteric coated so have no problem with the stomach.

Are you affected by damp weather? we're back to high humidity (98%) but we hardly ever have the dreaded combo of high heat + high damp here, so at least there's that

I used to be affected by damp weather but I don't notice it any more. High heat and humidity though, will wipe me out!:eek::sleep:
98% humidity with heat would almost kill me.:lol:

I'm still working on my gut and slowly improving. I started inulin (prebiotic) a few days ago and so far so good. I'm feeling better and my IBS-D has improved a lot!

One of the best ways to take a huge load off the liver is to get rid of dysbiosis and a leaky gut.

Jim