Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Jarod, Mar 22, 2013.
Asklipia I thought of you when I read this because of your interest in manganese.
That's interesting. I knew about its non-dependants on iron but its use of manganese could be important. I wonder why it developed this unique trait...Borrelia is very complex.
Interesting. I've been taking manganese--wonder if I am feeding the beast?
I probably have lyme and noticed that manganese on an empty stomach helps at times. It's almost like flicking a switch for something in my GI tract. Hard to describe.
Maybe we are feeding the beast, but maybe we also develop a manganese deficiency because of the lyme taking manganese from the critical organ tissues that get heavily infected?
I just had a debate about this on a lyme forum. Its interesting; especially in the way Klinghart now likes to push his supplement The Core, for HPU/KPU, which is chock full of managanese. I got diagnosed with that, but when I took the supplement, concluded it didnt help pretty quickly. Obviously that could be herx, but I am also quite tired of the response 'its herx' everytime a treatment makes someone feel worse.
One of the better educated in science responders on the other forum made the point, in response to my post about avoiding too much of certain minerals, that the bugs need this stuff because we do - so simple avoidance may actually produce a paradoxical response in the body up-regulating or down regulating its usage, and that the bugs may be able to use it better than us. And that you might be able to find a useful way to interupt the cycle of the bacteria from this kind of knowledge.
Absolutely. Butin the absence of that knowledge, I'm going to continue to be cautious of what I take. Part of the problem is docs etc treating ME/CFS and ignoring infectious disease or immune dysregulation. If you just focus on restoring mito's, or easing fatigue, you may end up going down routes that encourage the replication of the little blighters.
Thanks! Interesting indeed!
I'm confused as far as whether or not to take minerals on an empty stomach or with food. I've heard differing opinons. Explain (please)
Taking manganese and zinc on an empty stomach per KlingHardt KPU protocol was something I tried one time.
Seemed to help noticably for awhile. I later tested high in zinc, so I have backed off that.
I'm highly suspect of having issues with low in minerals, but have no idea how to correctly supplement them or to test levels to make sure I don't get too much of something. I'll ask my doc about that next time.
I tested my minerals some time ago and decided to complement all of them which were too low. Tp me it's impossible to heal when you're deficient in nutrients. It costs me a fortune but I'm in so much better shape than before.
Rich said that borrelia also feed on cysteine causing a methylation block due to gluathione depletion. I started a thread about Lyme and Methylation.
This is what he said about Bb and cysteine:
I forgot to mention, methylation will also increase cysteine. And glutathione is made up of cysteine, glutamate, and glycine so if you have excess glutamate then cysteine (and maybe also glycine) will help convert that into glutathione.
I posted earlier in this thread about L-cysteine possibly being used to reduce glutamate so I thought I should follow up on that. It seems Rich is saying that L-cystine (not L-cysteine) might be better. I'm not sure if anyone has actually tried this, but this is his explanation for why it could work:
(note: L-cysteine, L-cystine, and NAC could cause problems for people with mercury toxicity)
It seems mycoplasma, a Lyme coinfection, feeds on arginine. Stephen Buhner, author of Healing Lyme and a new book on Lyme coinfections bartonella and mycoplasma, says that it's actually a good idea to supplement with arginine even though it might be "feeding the beast".
Same for manganese.
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