Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Same, Same But Different? CBT Approaches for Paediatric CFS/ME and Depression

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by hixxy, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. hixxy

    hixxy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,130
    Likes:
    1,304
    Australia
    Behav Cogn Psychother. 2017 Mar 9:1-16. doi: 10.1017/S1352465817000108. [Epub ahead of print]

    Same, Same But Different? Cognitive Behavioural Treatment Approaches for Paediatric CFS/ME and Depression.

    Loades ME, Chalder T.

    Abstract

    BACKGROUND:
    Approximately one in three children and young people with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS/ME) also have probable depression. Cognitive behaviour therapy (CBT) has a growing evidence base as an effective treatment approach for CFS/ME and for depression in this population.

    AIMS:
    Given the high degree of co-morbidity, this discussion paper aims to compare and contrast CBT for CFS/ME and CBT for depression in children and young people.

    METHOD:
    The existing literature on CBT for depression and CBT for CFS/ME, in relation to children and young people was reviewed.

    RESULTS:
    Whilst there are commonalities to both treatments, the cognitive behavioural model of CFS/ME maintenance includes different factors and has a different emphasis to the cognitive behavioural model of depression, resulting in different intervention targets and strategies in a different sequence.

    CONCLUSIONS:
    A collaborative, formulation-driven approach to intervention should inform the intervention targets and treatment strategies.

    KEYWORDS:
    CBT; CFS/ME; depression; mood; paediatric

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28274290
    https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...pressiondiv/9EE80EC1C4B6375278EFF42E26ACFC51#
     
  2. Mohawk1995

    Mohawk1995 Senior Member

    Messages:
    239
    Likes:
    483
    I am going to be really blunt (for me): NO KIDDING Kids with ME/CFS have depression! You have one of the worst diseases ever on planet earth and you have yet to develop effective coping mechanisms....Duh! I am surprised that they only mention that it is 1 in 3. Makes me wonder what kind of tool they are using to assess depression. Don't get me wrong, for the vast majority of people who have ME/CFS their Depression came on as a result of the disease and not prior to the Disease. Also it did not cause the Disease and so by definition CBT or any other Psychological based treatment is not a cure for the disease. Could some really unbiased, practical, support based and compassionate "CBT" help people with ME/CFS ...sure. It is a devastating disease! Could some assistance with coping with the disease help especially with children....absolutely. Not sure we needed a dime spent on research to determine that!

    This is not intended as an insult to those who performed the research. I am not even going to look at the quality of the research in this case. Perhaps they are well intended, but they appear to have no idea how such a devastating disease would impact someone physically, emotionally or spiritually. AND if their motive is to continue to advance the notion that CBT is the gold standard of treatment for ME/CFS, they are delusional or worse!

    What does this mean anyway? "Approximately one in three children and young people with chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS/ME) also have probable depression. "
     
  3. TiredSam

    TiredSam The wise nematode hibernates

    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes:
    21,540
    Germany
    By "growing evidence base" I think she's referring to the large volume of poor quality studies that she and her small clique of colleagues seem desperate to churn out before the real growing evidence base from the USA, Norway and rest of the planet makes them and their careers irrelevant.
     
    Orla, Luther Blissett, Jan and 23 others like this.
  4. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes:
    28,207
    After this gets going with the section "CBT for CFS/ME" it's generally pretty annoying. There is probably too much to copy and paste.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
    Luther Blissett and Joh like this.
  5. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes:
    28,207
    Though research on adults suggest that many/most/all (?) don't consistently increase their total activity. Their walk may get a bit longer but they may be cutting back on other activities.
     
    Luther Blissett and Snow Leopard like this.
  6. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes:
    28,207
    So it's not just total activity, you're expected to do a consistent amount of high-energy activity every day regardless of symptoms. If you stick to this it's a recipe for relapse I think.
     
    Luther Blissett, mango and Webdog like this.
  7. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes:
    28,207
    Small but interesting admission that they say "evidence for deconditioning is questionable" but their model basically is still based around it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes:
    28,207
    Seems a pretty arbitrary way to set a baseline.

     
  9. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member

    Sad that so little has changed in the 40 years since I had this treatment. Hopefully, those whose careers are built on tormenting sick children will be out of a job soon.
     
  10. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes:
    3,657
    Nonsense, nonsense and nonsense. Lets use a little bit of common sense, if you can't live normally and suffer greatly will telling yourself your symptoms don't exist so you shouldn't feel bad fix the underlying problem?
    Anyone who says yes has the intelligence of a grapefruit [facepalm]
     
    Luther Blissett, Jan, atleje and 2 others like this.
  11. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes:
    12,454
    South Australia
  12. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,680
    Likes:
    28,207
     
    Luther Blissett and Valentijn like this.
  13. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,750
    Likes:
    23,190
    Another poor victim of misleading research and false claims. She probably honestly thinks that the cognitive behavioural model can explain the illness and that CBT/GET are useful and improving the lives of patients. By now she has invested considerable time and resources into going down this path and it's going to end in disappointment, or maybe resentment towards "prejudiced activists".
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  14. Cinders66

    Cinders66 Senior Member

    Messages:
    417
    Likes:
    1,811

    So if deconditioning isn't causing the multiple distressing symptoms and debilitation , what do they actually think is? Fear /avoidance just relates to the level of activity a patient is prepared to do, it doesn't explain why they feel ill and in pain in first place. Sleep disturbance surely didn't explain it either so how are they explaining it?
     
    Luther Blissett and Dolphin like this.
  15. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes:
    3,657
    Remember neurosis can explain "anything" and if you deny evidence then you can keep nonsense alive easily. The default explanation for failure is to blame the patient, treatment doesn't work its not because the premise is flawed its the patient's doing, not trying hard enough, giving up on the treatment (because the patient realizes its not fixing anything), not believing the genius "therapist" and so forth
     
  16. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

    Messages:
    1,089
    Likes:
    4,398
    Toronto, Canada
    I just stumbled across this study on Prospero so sent off an email to Ms. Loades asking if she was aware of the PACE controversy and Tuller's work. Not expecting a response.
     
    Cornishbird, Valentijn, Orla and 2 others like this.
  17. RogerBlack

    RogerBlack Senior Member

    Messages:
    891
    Likes:
    2,890
    You have missed the most important part and revolutionary aspect to the treatment of CFS by this method.
    In just two years, many patients are performing at 400% of their baseline, and shattering olympic records.
     
    SamanthaJ, Valentijn, Orla and 7 others like this.
  18. Alvin2

    Alvin2 If humans were rational...

    Messages:
    1,308
    Likes:
    3,657
    Actually at 10% increase every two weeks in one year they are at 11.91x (which is 1,191%) their original endurance and in two years its 129.13x (or 12,913%).
    Pretty soon they will be leaping tall buildings in a single bound and soon thereafter they can leap into orbit, by sheer muscle power. Superman is a lightweight compared to these results :woot:
     
    SamanthaJ, Chrisb, Solstice and 9 others like this.
  19. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

    Messages:
    4,615
    Likes:
    12,454
    South Australia
    That's my experience. Don't settle for anything less! :rocket:
     
  20. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,257
    Likes:
    17,985
    400% 12,913%

    Pfft. Those numbers are clearly bogus. They don't have lots of decimal places to imply great accuracy, and impress lesser minds. :meh:

    You guys will never make it in the self-promotion game. Reality is for losers. :rolleyes:
     
    Chrisb, Solstice, TiredSam and 2 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page