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SAM-e, Acyclovir, Atlas Profilax = Improvement from 3 to 4

Discussion in 'Antivirals, Antibiotics and Immune Modulators' started by Wayne, Feb 9, 2010.

  1. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ashland, Oregon
    Hi All,

    I’ve been experiencing some pretty steady improvement in my overall health the past 3-4 months and thought I’d post a little about my experiences. What’s notable is that this improvement has taken place in the midst of some very stressful times.

    It’s often hard to say what catalysts might be behind any shift in our health circumstances. I do however, have some pretty good ideas about what may be happening, and thought I’d share a few of my thoughts here.

    I feel I’ve been pretty consistent at an Activity Level of 2-3 for the past several years, despite finding some pretty significant things that have helped me. I now feel I’m at a pretty consistent Activity Level of 3-4. This feels pretty huge to me, given I’ve had ME/CFS for decades and am now 57 years old.

    I’m going to try to break some of this up into sections so it will hopefully be a little easier to read and follow. I also wanted to give this brief introduction and synopsis for those who may not want to read some of the details that follow. On a cautionary note, I should mention that what follows is pretty long.

    Best to All, Wayne
    ………………………………...

    SAM-e

    Shortly before leaving on an extended mid-west trip last fall (over 2,000 miles from Oregon), I saw a post by Richvank indicating that SAM-e may have the ability to support the methylation cycle for some of us.

    I bought a small amount of SAM-e before leaving, and noticed that it did give me a modest boost every time I took it (Jarrow brand, 200 mg). I thought this was a significant development given how depleted I was at the time. I was so depleted, I really didn’t know whether I would be able to finish the trip, and two days into it seriously considered returning to Oregon.

    Acyclovir

    Fast forward about 4 weeks. I’m now visiting my brother in the woods in Arkansas, wondering how I’m ever going to make it up to Wisconsin to visit my ailing mother in an assisted care facility. It felt like I was stuck in one of my “viral overload” cycles that can be so debilitating.

    I then ran into an opportunity to try the anti-viral drug Acyclovir. Realizing that most of us are likely dealing with all kinds of pathogenic overloads, I decided to try it to see what it might do. I was hesitant to do so because my body usually does not react well to prescription medications.

    I took one capsule in the evening, and within minutes, noticed a pretty stressful feeling in my body. Shortly after, I began to notice that my mind was really becoming engaged in a much different manner than normal. Both these developments didn’t lend for a great night’s sleep that night.

    The next day, I noticed a pretty significant shift in my body. I felt stronger, albeit not a whole lot better in other ways. In the next couple days, I began to feel better in other ways as well.

    So, I summoned up my courage, and took another half a capsule. This felt much milder to me, and seemed to be much better integrated by my body. I waited another 2-3 days, and then took another half capsule.

    After about a week or so, I decided to try a full capsule again, this time in the morning. This time it went very well, and I was able to exercise off any stressful or overly mind engaging sensations.

    What followed was very interesting to me. After taking only a total of three Acyclovir capsules over a 7-10 day period, it felt like I was done with this experiment. It also felt like I had somehow “put out a fire” in my system. Perhaps most notably, the pressure and pain I normally feel in my head became much less noticeable.

    My best guess is that I was able to somehow tamp down a viral infection, and though I’m not an expert on the immune system, felt I had tamped down some of the cytokines that are a normal part of immune response. In short, I now felt I was able to make my trip up to Wisconsin.

    My dear mother experienced a cerebral hemorrhage the day I arrived in Wisconsin, and translated (passed away) about three weeks later. Thankfully, we were mostly able to keep her comfortable during this time.

    I had some very special moments with my Mom during this time, hence the likely reason I felt such an imperative to make this very difficult trip. I will always consider it a blessing that she did not have to endure more years of severe dementia.

    I’m mentioning some of this because dealing with much of what happened during this time period was very stressful. I constantly wondered how much more I could take before I would literally collapse. Though I struggled a lot, the collapse never came.

    When I was finally ready to leave Wisconsin around the first of the year, I again wondered whether I could make it across country, especially in the midst of a -10 to -20 F deep freeze. Once I started out, I more fully realized how dangerous it was, and started driving like a truck driver to get west and out of the dangerous temperatures as soon as possible.

    Long story short, I traveled about 2,000 miles in about 60 hours. I was able to pull this off mainly through quarts of coffee and extra amounts of Cortef. By the time I arrived back in Oregon, I was barely running on fumes.

    My first few days back were sort of a haze, but I did manage to start regaining some rhythm in my life. After about a week, I all of a sudden got the strongest urge to go get some SAM-e as soon as possible.

    SAM-e ( 2 )

    I was able to get it locally the next day, and started taking some right away. The effect of SAM-e this time around was much more pronounced than my first experiment with it 3 months earlier. Within minutes, I began to experience a new kind of energy start to “bubble up” from my “core”. Within half an hour, I could literally feel my muscles becoming much stronger.

    In the ensuing days, I started being able to go on fairly length walks (which I had barely been able to do until then). I was totally taken aback by my new found ability to be doing what I was doing. I’ve taken an annual mid-west trip for the past several years, always having to pay dearly (for months) for it once it was over. What I was now experiencing was totally new and totally unexpected.

    I might just mention that after experiencing a few days of this “bubbling energy”, it actually began to feel like it was more than my body could handle. So I reduced my SAM-e down to half a tablet ( of 200 mg), and then reduced it further to . I’ve since upped it back up to tablet.

    Acyclovir ( 2 )

    After a few weeks during which I’ve again gone through some very stressful times as executor of my mother’s will, I again began to lose ground and experience what felt like “viral overload”.

    So I took a full capsule of Acyclovir one morning (a few days ago), and it felt like it immediately tamped down my up-regulated immune response. In short, it felt like I was able to again “put out the fire”.

    Acyclovir and Atlas Profilax

    I had a unique atlas (uppermost cervical vertebra) repositioning done about two years ago which I feel released a tremendous amount of pressure on my cranial nerves. I feel this pressure had been in place since I suffered a severe whiplash injury some 40 years earlier.

    After the Atlas Profilax, I felt my cranial nerves would likely be attempting to regenerate themselves for the rest of my life. I feel I’ve made some progress in the past couple years, but I now have a strong feeling that my cranial nerves have been able to regenerate themselves to a greater degree since I experimented with Acyclovir.

    The normal pressure and pain I’ve long felt in my head is now much reduced. I think it’s highly likely this is a result of reducing my viral overload and much of the inflammation associated with viral infections. In short, I believe these results have allowed my cranial nerves an opportunity to further regenerate and have done so.

    SAM-e ( 3 )

    I believe one of the main reasons (if not the only reason) I’ve done so well with the SAM-e is because it is supporting my methylation cycle. I first took some of the supplements that Richvank recommended as part of his simplified protocol a couple years ago.

    At that time, I experienced some exacerbation of some detoxifications symptoms (headaches mostly). I also felt some of the “bubbling of energy” that I recently experienced with SAM-e.

    Interestingly however, the original supplements I took gradually began to lose their effectiveness in my body. Either that, or my body took them as far as they could go, and was unable to improve further without more support.

    It seems now like this SAM-e is giving me some of the support that I needed to take my next step as far as addressing some of methylation deficiencies. Rich, I would be most interested to hear any thoughts you might have on my experience if you run across this thread.

    Thanks for reading everybody. It’s been kind of a “windy” post. :Retro wink: Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.

    All the Best, Wayne
  2. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Hi Wayne
    Sorry to hear of your mother's passing, but I'm glad you were able to be with her in her final weeks.
    A couple of thoughts on your experiments with sam-e and acyclovir.
    Your experience with sam-e seems par for the course from what I can tell. Methylation support seems to be one step forward, 2 steps back. Everything starts working better, but then you start working off all the accumulated toxins and pathogens. It seems to take a long time if you've been ill for years.
    I've heard it said...secondhand.. that it would make more sense to do methylation support at the end of the process rather than the beginning.. after you've got your viral and toxin load down.. and that makes sense to me but I haven't heard how to do it.
    On Acyclovir.. aren't you concerned about resistance if you use the drug randomly like that.?
    Plus, I wonder how smart it is to use antivirals until your immune system is in good shape.
    I feel better on Valtrex. Going by titers, I have chronic EBV, but I've held off on using the drug because I wanted my immune system to be in shape in order to be able to actually kill off the virus.
    Problem is I'm not sure what tests I should be running to tell me when I've got to that point.
    Amy Yasko has the folks on her program wait until the final step before she recommends adding in antivirals. She also recommends using several agents to kill off virus.. something to prevent replication, something to flush it out.. (in her case .. her RNAs) etc, etc.
    And otoh, maybe it's a good idea to keep the virus from replicating ...otherwise you might have a higher viral load by the time you get around to tackling it?
    The thing is I've read that those antiviral drugs are hard on the liver, so you don't want to be on them for a long time. Doesn't seem to bother Dr Lerner though. He seems to keep patients on them for years.
    It's a dilemma for sure.
    Maybe another way to go would be to pair IVIG and antivirals?
    Just some thoughts.. for what it's worth.
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    SAM-e - Antivirals - Methylation

    Hi Wayne
    Sorry to hear of your mother's passing, but I'm glad you were able to be with her in her final weeks.

    Hi Aquariusgirl,

    To avoid any confusion, I've decided to respond to some of your points in this burgundy color.

    First of all, thanks much for your condolences and kind words. Also, before I forget, I did receive your PM a week ago or so, and I replied back to you. I was unable to have it sent however because your mailbox was full. I saved my reply and can send it again. Let me know when that would work for you. Thanks.

    A couple of thoughts on your experiments with sam-e and acyclovir.
    Your experience with sam-e seems par for the course from what I can tell. Methylation support seems to be one step forward, 2 steps back. Everything starts working better, but then you start working off all the accumulated toxins and pathogens. It seems to take a long time if you've been ill for years.

    I can't really say that I've had steps back on my methylation experiences; perhaps pauses. As you probably know, I have quite a comprehensive detoxification program that I feel works well for me. Different aspects of it work for various detoxification phases I may find myself facing at any given time. So my recent experience with SAM-e supporting my methylation cycle has been without any steps back (so far).

    I've heard it said...secondhand.. that it would make more sense to do methylation support at the end of the process rather than the beginning.. after you've got your viral and toxin load down.. and that makes sense to me but I haven't heard how to do it.

    I've not heard this before, but my experience wouldn't support this hypothesis. I suspect getting methylation up to normal might help bring the viral/toxic load down. I think the key is to be well prepared to handle any detoxification difficulties that may arise.

    On Acyclovir.. aren't you concerned about resistance if you use the drug randomly like that.?

    Actually, I'm not. I've only taken a total of four capsules in the past three months. People that take Acyclovir regularly take as many as two/day. I felt part of the significance of the experience I described in my initial post was that I felt a very small amount of Acyclovir was able to give me some pretty dramatic results. I can't help but think that if it can do it for me, perhaps it can do it for others. I understand however, that this would be a totally different paradigm from most prescription anti-viral protocols.

    Plus, I wonder how smart it is to use antivirals until your immune system is in good shape.
    I feel better on Valtrex. Going by titers, I have chronic EBV, but I've held off on using the drug because I wanted my immune system to be in shape in order to be able to actually kill off the virus.

    My experience with Acyclovir is that my very short duration of taking it has actually improved my immune system quite significantly. I mentioned in my post that I felt I was able to "put out a fire" in my body. I feel this fire was from a viral overload, and was significantly compromising my immune system and causing chronic pain and inflammation in my body, particularly my head and neck area.

    Problem is I'm not sure what tests I should be running to tell me when I've got to that point.
    Amy Yasko has the folks on her program wait until the final step before she recommends adding in antivirals. She also recommends using several agents to kill off virus.. something to prevent replication, something to flush it out.. (in her case .. her RNAs) etc, etc.
    And otoh, maybe it's a good idea to keep the virus from replicating ...otherwise you might have a higher viral load by the time you get around to tackling it?

    I've never taken the necessary steps to do a lot of testing to measure various things, such as the viral titers. Perhaps I should, and I may do so more in the future. At this time, I really don't have a doctor who I feel could ably assist me in a meaningful manner, and I feel I'm on my own to a very large degree.

    My current approach, though unorthodox, is actually one that works fairly well for me. Everyday I get up, I feel like I'm, in a sense, going to my own laboratory, trying to assess my body's needs. There's no set protocol that will allow me to get results I'm looking for, so I have to depend to a large degree on my own initiative (and creativity) to move forward the best I can. Plus, I tend to focus on low-cost, low-impact (but highly effective) approaches.

    I wish I had a single doctor I could trust and depend on to orchestrate a get-well program for me, but these kinds of practitioners seem to be few and far between. It seems to me that the nature of our health challenges forces us to depend mostly on ourselves, and look for health care practitioners who may be able to assist us the best they can.

    Perhaps part of my philosophy derives from the fact that I've never been able to comfortably navigate our health care system. And I've experienced a fair amount of aggravation in the times I've tried.


    The thing is I've read that those antiviral drugs are hard on the liver, so you don't want to be on them for a long time. Doesn't seem to bother Dr Lerner though. He seems to keep patients on them for years.

    Regarding Dr. Lerner, I've always been skeptical about the way he (she?) operates. His approach seems to be too rigid and seems to ignore the high degree of reactivity that people with ME/CFS experience when experimenting with any kind of drug.

    I would be very hesitant to subject myself to such rigid protocols, because my body is way to sensitive to be able to withstand the kinds of assaults that some of these anti-viral programs can entail. My recent Acyclovir experience, where just a small amount gave me good results, would seem to argue against the more rigid approach of Dr. Lerner.

    There's a couple of great threads on this board describing various kinds of natural anti-virals and anti-retrovirals. My own health philosophy is to research and experiment with lower-impact modalities rather than rush into the "higher-impact" ones.

    My current approach however, is to wait until I get tested for XMRV before I undertake any kind of major protocol of any kind. Now's the time to be patient (IMHO).
    :Retro smile:

    Good to hear from you Aquariusgirl. Thanks for writing.

    Wayne
  4. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Yes, I hear you on docs....A perennial disappointment.

    Well, it would be interesting to see if you did a more comprehensive methylation program... folates, b12, sam-e, multi.... whether you experienced detox-like symptoms. If you didn't, I would think either you didn't have a block in the cycle or you had one hell of a DIY detox program.....

    On acyclovir, as I understand it Valtrex is converted to acyclovir in the body, and apparently it has an effect on methylation . If you have high adenosine (one of the things measured in that Vitamin Diagnostics panel) it will modulate it... and bring it down I think.
    I believe high adenosine impedes methylation.
    That's one of the reasons why the DAN docs use it for autistic kids. Rich said it was Sid Baker, teh Dan doc, who first discovered this.
    Wonder if that's why it's helping you?

    and yep my inbox is freed up now.

    All the best
    AQ
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Atlas Profilax - Orthogonal Chiropractic

    Hi All,

    I recently made a fairly in-depth post on the ProHealth in response to an inquiry about Atlas Profilax (AP). Thought I'd paste it here (below) on this thread, as it explains AP in a little more detail.

    Best Regards, Wayne
    ..............................................................

    Hi Herbqueen,

    I'm sorry to hear you're going through such a difficult time. I hope you can find something that will help you at least halt this decline you're experiencing. Hopefully, you can find something to reverse it. Regarding Atlas Profilax (also known as AtlasPROfilax): It is something quite different from orthogonal chiropractic. I myself had regular orthogonal chiropractic therapy for many years. I found it quite helpful, and relieved a lot of my symptoms.

    Orthogonal Chiropractic is just one of about 10 technques that fall under the umbrella of "upper cervical chiropractic". As far as I know, they are all quite gentle, and focus almost entirely on the upper cervical area, which I think would be about the top 3-4 vertabrae. Upper cervical Chiropractors generally take x-rays, and do some very precise mapping of your upper cervical area. They then choose an adjustment that is perfectly suited to an individual's unique situation. My own DC told me there are literally over a million different adjustments that might be chosen.

    Atlas Profilax is VERY different from either regular chiropractic or upper cervical chiropractic. Instead of "tweaking" the upper cervical vertebrae, they actually "reposition" the atlas only. I recently visited with a chiropractor in the Twin Cities who has made Atlas Profilax his primary focus of care. He shared with me some of his frustration of going to ongoing Chiropractic education. He says he sometimes has to restrain himself from standing up and telling the instructors they've got it all wrong!

    If I remember correctly, he says the chiropractic profession actually confuses the atlas with the axis, which is the SECOND cervical vertebra. So they never really get to the core of so many people's problems, which is the atlas being out of alignment. Very briefly, the atlas is actually somewhat "bowl-shaped" and extends out to behind both ears. The skull then sits on top of this bowl. I've heard that moving the atlas might be somewhat similar to moving a boulder. It doesn't normally move easily, but once repostioned in its proper alignment, doesn't move out of alignment easily either.

    Normally, there are pins that keep the atlas "locked" into place. When the atlas is "repositioned" by the Atlas Profilax technique, it's done so in a way so that the pins can keep it in place. Thus, Atlas Profilax is normally a one-time adjustment. I would compare this to all upper cervical techniques which do not "lock" the atlas into its proper position, and requires ongoing care, and which can be quite expensive. (The one-time cost for Atlas Profilax is generally $250; never any extra charge for a followup recheck or additional care).

    I could probably write for several hours about any number of aspects of Atlas Profilax, and how it has helped me immensely. That said, it did not "cure" my ME/CFS, nor did I expect it to. But it did greatly relieve many symptoms I experience, including vertigo, pressure in head, lots of neck pain and chronic headaches for 40 years, etc.; it also improved my digestion (and thus my immune system) in a major way, improved my posture, my balance, and much more. I've posted extensively on this board on the benefits I've experienced.

    For anybody who's interested, the chiropractor in the Twin Cities who does Atlas Profilax is Dr. Brian Elijah. He is apparently one of only three chiropractors in the world who do the AP. The several hundred other AP practitioners, mostly in Europe, work through their own specialty, oftentimes as an ND or massage therapist. My own hope is the the Chiropractic profession would embrace Atlas Profilax in a major way, which would make it more readily accessible to the general public.

    Good luck Herbqueen with whatever steps you choose to take next. I think it's good that you're considering Atlas Profilax. My own perspective is that it is a very good starting point for trying to improves one's health. For many people, I believe it has the potential to relieve chronic and often enormous stress from the body (and especially cranial nerves). It did for me.

    All the Best, Wayne
  6. MNC

    MNC Senior Member

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    All I know about SAM-e is that I have had elevated liver GPT transaminases for 10 years and that in two ocsasions that I took one pack of SAM-e, my tests turned perfectly well, with the GPT in the right range.

    I have taken it for some months and the GPT remains ok, but I don't feel any better and it is an expensive stuff. I am still taking 200 mg a day and I am not sure I will buy more when I'll run out of it.

    I read lots of literature about it, for depression, for anxiety, for liver problems, for methylation... but I honestly don't feel any real physical benefits that I can notice. They say you have to take high dosis of 1.600 mg a day or so, but that is too expensive for me. I tried to buy it in a drug & chemicals wholesale store in powder, but they don't sell it. It's only available through supplements brands. In my country, Spain, they used to sell it in the pharmacies in an injectable/drinkable form for liver diseases, but the Spanish Drugs Administration withdrew it and now it's unavailable. Liver specislists I asked said to me that it really didn't work.
  7. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi Wayne,

    Just popping in for a minute to say that SAM-e has helped me off and on for 10 years...but when taking so many other things, it's often hard to know what's helping or what isn't.

    Had a really bad crash from Dec-March, and off and on into April as well, and after going over ancient CFS diaries I used to keep, I found that I always seemed to feel 'better' when taking SAM-e. So I restarted it a few days ago, and can definitely tell a difference.

    But besides the price (which has come down big-time online anyway), there's another catch. Sometimes I find it can make me a little too 'giddy' or slightly revved up, which is kind of a weird way to describe the reaction. I can still have all the typical CFS/ME symptoms, but feel a little overstimulated mentally. So perhaps a break is a good idea, maybe one or two days a week...or maybe going down on the dose?

    And the other thing I have to mention is MOLYBDENUM -- a trace mineral that helps detoxify aldehydes and other toxic byproducts of fungal and other infections. In just three days it has made the difference in being able to walk just a little further (or more "often") than a week earlier. I have no car, and have to buy food at the grocery store, but there were days where I just could not get out, and the store's only 3 blocks away. So...crossing my fingers that this 'upswing' will continue...for all of us who may benefit from SAM-e...and cofactors.

    Take care,

    Dan

    p.s. I hope to get the methylation panel, and also that other test (can't remember the name) that checks for other detox pathway problems...sulfation, etc..
  8. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

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    I like SAMe and also D Ribose. You do have to the correct amount of any supplement. Everyone is so different.
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Dan,

    Good to hear from you. Sorry to hear you've been going through such a rough patch. But good to hear you're make a little progress recently.

    Thanks for mentioning the molybdenum. It keeps coming up in my mind these days, but then I so easily forget about it before following through. But it seems like I need to get this to support my detox, especially since I'm doing regular FIR saunas.

    Wayne

    P.S. Do you know yet how much it costs to get the methylation panel and other detox pathway tests? I should do these as well. Just kind of feels overwhelming to consider it all though.
  10. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Acyclovir Update

    Just a quick note here:

    I continue to use the Acyclovir on a "as needed" basis. This has generally meant that when I notice a fairly significant deterioration in how I feel on any given day (or two days...), I will take a single dose of Acyclovir.

    I've found this generally turns things around for me, usually within 24 hours. In the past, I could languish after the onset of deterioration for several days to several weeks or more. It just feels like Acyclovir is an important tool in my tool chest these days. I probably average taking a single dose every 1-2 weeks.

    Wayne
  11. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hey Dan--

    2 questions: at what dose does SAM-e not rev you up? I would like to avoid that feeling, but am curious about trying SAM-e.

    And also... what dose of molybdenum do you take? Do you buy it in a formula or separate as a single mineral?
  12. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Good to hear from you too Wayne! The Diagnos-techs Methylation Panel -- the last I heard -- a couple months back, it was $330. Which is about $329 more than I have at the moment, but hope to try and rally my family/friends to help raise some funds. Not much luck so far, but I'm realizing more and more how incredibly difficult it is for people to understand/comprehendd this illness, how multi-factoral it is, etc.. I highly recommend googling info on moly-b. It may be helpful, may not...but it's one of those essential trace elements that probably gets lost in the shuffle.

    Take care,

    Dan
  13. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Hi DB,

    #1 is kind of hard to answer. I usually get the SAM-e in the 200mg dose, and at one time, yeeeeeaaaars ago, my regular HMO doc's assistant actually recommended that I take the "full" daily dose, which at that time, was 1600 mgs a day! She of course didn't know anything about CFS, nor anything about methylation or sulfation problems, but recommended it for overall mood support as well as heart and joint function (they were prescribing several different anti-depressants and things like gabapentin, which just made me SO much worse). So I did...I found a ton of it on Ebay, and think I started out pretty high, but then went down to 200-400mgs a day.

    Now...8 years later (and a lot of brain fog!)...I'm going to see what happens with 400mgs, maybe 800mgs a day (right now I only have the 400mg caps as they were on sale). BUT, I'll probably go down to 200mgs, maybe 2x a day? I think I can tell if I've taken too much, because, yes, my mood goes up, and joints feel better, but I get a little giddy, and also too restless and perhaps brain-foggy on it.

    Rich could answer this better, as some people on his protocol cannot tolerate any SAM-e, but then others need some. I think it has to do with methylation, but especially the sulfation detox pathway.

    Moly-B: Carlson makes a moly-b in 500mcg pills. I think Source Naturals also has one.

    I started by cutting them in half, and going with three 'half's' a day, then went up the second day. I've read that one's body will excrete what it doesn't need (Dr. Michael Murray), but not positive on that. It interacts with copper, so if one's copper is high, then molybdenum helps lower it. My copper has always been low (on hair tests) so I've been told to take copper/zinc daily.

    Hope this helps DB!
  14. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    Hi Dan--

    Thanks. I am going to hold off on the SAM-e then, until I do that methylation panel and run it past Rich. I don't want to go into that hyper-wired state right now, or it will wipe me out even more.

    As for the moly-b, I have VERY HIGH COPPER, so that might be a good thing for me.

    You should know tho, since you have LOW copper, that zinc and copper compete with each other and one will tend to displace the other. I have begun taking zinc again (despite that damn nausea it gives me:Retro tongue:), in order to lower my copper. It makes me wonder it taking zinc won't do the same thing to you... ? I don't undertsand why you've been recommended to take BOTH.
  15. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Hi Dan & Dreambirdie

    Just thought I'd mention that I'm now doing 200 mg of SAM-e daily, and find this amount works well for me. I couldn't do this much in the beginning, as I would also experience a "revved up" feeling. So I backed off to about half that every day, or even every other day.

    The fact that I can now handle an entire 200 mg. feels like a good indication my body has developed a certain stamina to "integrate" it. Just this afternoon, I was "languishing" more than normal, and remembered I forgot to take my SAM-e. I felt quite a bit bitter within about 15 minutes after taking some.

    Wayne
  16. Sallysblooms

    Sallysblooms P.O.T.S. now SO MUCH BETTER!

    Messages:
    1,767
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    327
    Southern USA
    I take just a tad less than 200mg daily.
  17. sela

    sela Senior Member

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    5
    marin co, ca
    who sells the cheapest same?
  18. leaves

    leaves Senior Member

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    doctor's best at vitacost is pretty cheap.
  19. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

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    3,921
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    784
    Concord, NH
    My 2 cents via my Dr. He says he does not trust getting things like DHEA and SAMe from a pharmacy. He only trust getting simple things like Minerals.

    I tried SAMe for 1.5 months at 200mg/day. The cheapest I could find this dose was at about $1/day..
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

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    Ashland, Oregon
    I continue to take SAM-e daily, 200 mg/day and continue to find it very helpful. I buy the Jarrow brand (60 count, 200 mg., $31.50). Each tablet is individually wrapped, which is supposed to insure freshness. Apparently SAM-e can degrade quite quickly if it's exposed to air.

    Wayne

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