1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Ergonomics and ME/CFS: Have You Hurt Yourself Without Knowing It?
Having a chronic illness like ME/CFS can make it hard to avoid problems that come from bad ergonomics. Jody Smith has learned some lessons the hard way ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

"Salvaging psychotherapy research: a manifesto" by James C. Coyne (renegade psychologist)

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Dolphin, Jun 21, 2014.

  1. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,705
    Likes:
    5,524
    James C. Coyne is an influential psychologist who isn't afraid to highlight problems in psychological research.

    It starts:
    He makes lots of criticisms of the field, but of course, knowing about such problems is useful for understanding and critiquing any type of research.
    Valentijn, leela, Bob and 3 others like this.
  2. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,705
    Likes:
    5,524
    A few more quotes:

    Iquitos, Sasha, Cheshire and 7 others like this.
  3. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    1,961
    A mutual protection racket.

    It all comes back to the lack of genuinely objective standards. Until they and their ideas are required to meet such standards then they can, and will, continue to muddy the waters and waste human lives by the truckload.
    Iquitos, Tito, Valentijn and 3 others like this.
  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    These are things we have been saying for years, most notably about the PACE trial.
    Dolphin, Valentijn, leela and 2 others like this.
  5. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    PDW's Cochrane review?

    [My bolding]

    I agree with these last points. Indeed I am working toward arguments that major culture shifts are required in areas way beyond even psychotherapy and psychogenic medicine. Yet it is in psychogenic medicine that the issues are most egregious.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    biophile, Valentijn and leela like this.
  6. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    1,961
    An outstanding example of how reviews/meta-analyses should not be done.
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
    biophile and Valentijn like this.
  7. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    602
    The problem is psychologists make a living selling therapy. Do we expect them to publish research showing that their product is defective?
    Min, natasa778 and Tito like this.
  8. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes:
    339
    France
    Do anyone know what is the threshold (if such a threshold exists) above what a medication is considered as efficient or not? Would the 22% PACE trial “recovery” be sufficient in a pharmacology trial?
  9. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    I think that effect size also matters.
    Cheshire likes this.
  10. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    602
    A pharmacology trial would usually be double-blinded. The psychobabblers do usually avoid even single-blinded trials.

    I am not sure if a medication could be considered efficient without proper controls and blinding.
    Min, Bob and Cheshire like this.
  11. user9876

    user9876 Senior Member

    Messages:
    754
    Likes:
    1,815
    We know that they talk of 22% of (CBT|GET)+SMC but the SMC on its own has a recovery rate under their definition of 15% thus they are over claiming.

    We know that they lowered the thresholds post hoc to a level where they are below the trial entry criteria. We don't know if the trial steering committee approved this change and if they did what evidence was presented to them. We also know the published reason for changing the threshold for the sf36 physical function score was wrong and we know that the journal publishing the PACE recovery paper have been told it is wrong and have chosen not to make a correction.
    Min, Dolphin and Valentijn like this.
  12. Cheshire

    Cheshire Senior Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes:
    339
    France

    I perfectly know that, that's why I used " ". Maybe I wasn't sufficiently explicit. I meant: "Even with their overexagerated recovery results do they meet basic pharmacological trial standards?"
  13. chipmunk1

    chipmunk1 Senior Member

    Messages:
    191
    Likes:
    602
    Of course they don't. it's very hard to do.

    I have been looking for CBT trials that were as close as possible to pharmacological trail standards and so far i haven't found any but one that found CBT was ineffective for most conditions they are attempting to treat.

    if someone knows of reliable studies please let me know.
    Cheshire likes this.
  14. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    How do you blind a patient to psychotherapy? Its chalk and cheese. Inability to blind psychotherapy is one of the reasons that so much of this research is unreliable, and why these studies, even if using RCT format in other ways, are not the highest grade of evidence.
  15. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    On PACE, isn't it also the case if what I hear about FOI information is correct, that over half of the recovered patients started that way, at least in terms of SF-36? Maybe someone who knows more about that can comment? If you halve that figure, say six percent, and add it to fifteen percent, you get .... twenty one percent. We need all the data from the trials published. It looks very much like a total non-result, a proof of the null hypothesis, is being spun as a massive success.
    Cheshire, Sean and Iquitos like this.
  16. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    1,961
    If true, that would be a serious blow against the already weak PACE results.
    Valentijn likes this.
  17. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    That is why I want it confirmed if I can.
    Valentijn and Sean like this.
  18. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,185
    Likes:
    11,254
    Logan, Queensland, Australia

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page