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Rich Vank's Simplified Methylation Protocol Poll

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Apr 21, 2010.

?

I have tried Rich Vanks Simplified Methylation Protocol with the following results:

  1. I am in effective remission (80%+)

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  2. Major Improvement

    20 vote(s)
    25.3%
  3. Minor improvement

    22 vote(s)
    27.8%
  4. No change

    22 vote(s)
    27.8%
  5. Minor crash

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. Moderate crash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Major crash

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. Unable to continue protocol

    11 vote(s)
    13.9%
  1. determined

    determined Senior Member

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    USA: Deep South
    Vinod3X3
    Thank you for so eloquently expressing the wisdom of going slowly with the methylation protocol. I totally agree. The more fragile one's condition, the more slowly one should go.

    I am continuing with my very low doses of methylfolate and mB12. For a month or two, I tried to add on various other vitamins, also at extremely low doses, but I've stopped those. I intend to restart them, one at a time, and wait 2 weeks in between the addition of anything new.

    I continue to have increased stamina/energy.
  2. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Just curious if anyone has had improvements in blood sugar control / metabolism with the simple methylation protocol? Specifically improvement of reactive hypoglycemia? I wake up several times a night in hypoglycemic attacks, craving carbs. Driving me insane!
  3. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Avoiding high glycemic-index carbs has helped me the most with that, but improved methylation should help too, since the body's using more of the glucose in the blood instead of storing it as fat. Off the protocol I'm at about 25% functionality, and on it I'm at about 40%. It may not sound like a huge improvement, but it's the difference between being housebound and being able to go out daily for short to the store and such (if someone drives me).

    I don't think methylation alone will take care of the cravings, unless it's the final straw that breaks the back of your case of ME.
  4. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    I can't be sure, but I think the methylation protocol made my hypoglycemia worse. I assume that was down to increased oxidative stress.

    I have full blown insulin resistance now.

    I'm not sure how typical my case is, because it took quite a few years to turn my situation around and for glutathione to begin increasing.

    The other factor is viral load. There's a connection v. chronic viral infection & diabetes. I read this in yasko's book. But I'm guessing this info could be googled too.

    I just saw a doctor who said we need glucagon for our blood sugar issues...but I think we may need other drugs as well...He just mentioned the glucagon in passing.

    Anyway, worsening sugar control issues might be something to watch for, and manage.
  5. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    N. California
    I am also noticing that my hypoglycemia is worse. I have been using TD-glutathione as well as taking low doses of the methylation supp's. The days when I use the TD-G seem to make the hypoglycemia especially bad. I feel an insatiable hunger all day and drop dead exhausted. I'm going to cut WAY BACK on both for now.
  6. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, aquariusgirl.

    I'm puzzled that you have both hypoglycemia and insulin resistance. Hypoglycemia in ME is due to the problems with the HPA axis, I think. Worsening hypoglycemia may be due to improved ability of the cells to burn glucose as fuel while the HPA axis has not yet improved, so gluconeogenesis (which is normally stimulated by cortisol from the HPA axis) cannot keep up with the increased demand for glucose by the cells, and the blood sugar level becomes lower

    Insulin resistance usually caused an INCREASE in the blood glucose level, because the cells are not accepting the glucose at a high enough rate. I don't understand how you have both of these at the same time.

    Best regards,

    Rich
    Lotus97 likes this.
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Dreambirdie.

    As I wrote to Aquariusgirl, I think that hypoglycemia in ME is caused by lack of control by the HPA axis. Normally, cortisol is the main promoter of gluconeogenesis by the liver, which produced more glucose when more is needed. The TD-glutathione may be helping to lift the partial block in the Krebs cycle that is caused by glutathione depletion. This would cause the Krebs cycle to accept carbohydrates at a higher rate, and that would tend to lower the blood glucose level, if the HPA axis were not able to stimulate gluconeogenesis enough to keep this level up.

    I would hope that over time the HPA axis function would come back to normal, but this may happen more slowly than the recovery of the Krebs cycle function.

    Some people have been able to keep their cortisol from breaking down as fast as it usually does by using licorice root extract. This effectively raises the cortisol level, though no cortisol is added.

    I don't understand exactly what the mechanism that causes the HPA axis dysfunction in ME. I'm beginning to suspect that it is damage to the hippocampus, which controls the HPA axis by its interaction with the hypothalamus. The stress researchers have noted that there are more cortisol receptors on the hippocampus than on any other part of the brain. The elevated combined stress that precedes the onset of ME in many cases could have produced high cortisol output for an extended time, and perhaps this damaged the hippocampus, causing it to dysfunction. This in turn may lead to dysfunction of the HPA axis, resulting in lowered cortisol output and hypoglycemia. This is something I'm still trying to understand.

    Rich
    Lotus97 likes this.
  8. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Rich
    I had hypoglycemia. It progressed to insulin resistance. I did a 6-hr glucose tolerance test, with contemporaneous insulin testing. Glucose levels were pretty much consistent. The one reading I have for insulin is 51, which is off the charts.
    At this point, I am pre-diabetic according to several doctors.
  9. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Russell Island, Australia
    This is off topic, but how is it so many people on this forum have had consults with KDM? I'm certain you all don't live local to him. Do you consult with him when he travels or does he do international phone consults?
  10. anne_likes_red

    anne_likes_red Senior Member

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    They travel to see him in Brussels Hixxy.
    ...Then I think he'll do follow up telephone consults.

    He's also seen a group of patients (of Dr Lewis) in Melbourne.
  11. topaz

    topaz Senior Member

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    Hi
    Would you happen to have more details of Dr Lewis (even full name would help locate him).

    thanks
  12. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, aquariusgirl.

    O.K., I get it now. I'm also prediabetic, though as you know, I don't have M.E. For what it's worth, here's what I'm experimenting with: chromium, vanadium and cinnamon to help with transport of glucose into the cells, benfotiamine to stimulate transketolase and increase flow into the pentose phosphate shunt on glycolysis, and the following combination to help the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex: magnesium, B-complex and alpha lipoic acid.

    I think this is helping, because I don't have the "pre-numbness" in my toes and the bottoms of my feet that I was formerly experiencing when I awoke in the mornings.
    I'm not sure which is helping, because of the shotgun approach.

    Best regards,

    Rich
  13. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, topaz.

    His first name is Don. He's one of the signatories on the new international M.E. definition paper that just came out.

    Rich
  14. hixxy

    hixxy Woof woof

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    Russell Island, Australia
  15. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Thank you. I was experimenting with vytosa, but I needed 4 aspirin just to handle the headache it caused...Something not right with that picture.
  16. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Dreambiride, I never felt an insatiable hunger, I craved sugar to feed my brain. I think this has been a feature of my illness from the beginning, but it got a lot worse while doing methylation support.
    I should have tried harder to tackle it with diet, but I let it slide and I piled on the pounds.
    I think my UTMs showed low chromium and vanadium, but I don't remember yasko commenting on that on the few I ran thru her.and I never thought much of it ..and I just ploughed on, ignoring obvious problems.

    It's a dilemma, because even now, my brain doesn't function unless I give it folate and b12. And it's not much fun being checked out all day.

    Everything is a trade off .....
  17. Dreambirdie

    Dreambirdie work in progress

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    N. California
    aquariusgirl, I'm sorry you've had a hard time with the protocol.

    As soon as I stopped the glutathione, the insatiable hunger pangs stopped. So I think I have to be very discriminating in my use of it. I'm using the B12 and folate very sparingly for now. I don't like overwhleming my body with too much stress, which IMO sabotages efforts at healing. And luckily I do not crave sugar.
  18. alexa

    alexa

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    hello fellow methylaters!
    it turns out that i have been taking way to much of folate ( i took a full tablet of actifolate and folapro before ) and now i have taken a half or full of folinic acid instead of a quarter, i have felt pretty ok with this portocoll, when i first started i got a huge cold, the first one i two years ( since i got sick) but then i have not felt much and not really improving either. i had to take a break from the protocoll and when i have started again now i have felt worse but in a strange tired, dizzy, weak way...
    did my taking too much of folinic acid screw up my protocoll?
  19. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Alexa.

    I don't think the higher dosage of folinic acid will hurt you. I think it's a matter of what you can tolerate. Higher dosages cause some people to have more severe symptoms while on the protocol. I usually recommend coming up slowly on the dosages and not exceeding what is tolerable from a symptoms point of view.

    Rich
  20. rydra_wong

    rydra_wong Guest

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    These are all good things and I take some of them. (all but cinnamin, although I've taken that too but it gets to be too many pills). I am pre-diabetic and low in chromium and vanadium and I take those in my multi but I am not too reliable about taking my multi. But take them or not they are not enough to help me. I get low blood sugar attacks that won't quit (fyi the symptoms of a low blood sugar attack and a panic attack are exactly the same -- panic is a known biological response to low blood sugar).

    DHEA stops it in its tracks. When the DHEA starts to wane the shaking is back so I have to replenish later in the day (DHEA only persists for 20 hours). The reason it works is because DHEA makes estrogen and estrogen raises BH4. I don't know what I read to make me think low BH4 is tied to diabetes and I can't prove it, but I think it is. Here's a reference on estrogen and BH4: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...lation-hyperxciteability-and-things-that-help (second note)

    I am not saying deficiencies in chromium and vanadium should not be corrected and in fact you are making me wonder if I am more careful to replenish the chromium and vanadium if I could perhaps lower my DHEA. So could be I've learned something useful here.

    But if you need a quick fix DHEA is quick and strong and knocks blood sugar issues out cold.

    I also found Rhodiola works (high dose and I cannot recall the dose that worked, sorry). It has been proven to raise glycogen stores. It worked for me for some years and then I got worse and needed the DHEA. T

    hese are of course bandaides...I think the chromium and vanadium are the way to go but I never noticed any fast response from them.

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