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ME/CFS: A disease at war with itself
We can all agree that ME/CFS is a nasty disease, particularly in its severe form, but there are abundant nasty diseases in the world. What is unique and particularly confounding about our disease is that so much controversy surrounds it, and not only surrounds it, but invades it too.
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Rich Vank's Simplified Methylation Protocol Poll

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Apr 21, 2010.

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I have tried Rich Vanks Simplified Methylation Protocol with the following results:

  1. I am in effective remission (80%+)

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  2. Major Improvement

    20 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Minor improvement

    22 vote(s)
    27.5%
  4. No change

    22 vote(s)
    27.5%
  5. Minor crash

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. Moderate crash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Major crash

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. Unable to continue protocol

    12 vote(s)
    15.0%
  1. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Yes, I sleep like very well, but this was achieved by major dietary changes. Things got even better when I started the SMP.

    I was going to pursue your recommendation for a binder, but I haven't felt like the symptoms have been too bad. I'm thinking about raising the dosage again next week, so I might get some activated charcoal to have on hand in case things get a bit dicey.
     
  2. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    7 weeks on the Simplified Methylation Protocol.

    I'm here tonight to provide an update about my experiences with the SMP. Honestly, I had a great week. The benefits have included decreasing fatigue, fewer periods of decreased mental clarity, less reactive hypoglycemia, and continued improvement of my ability to handle psychological stressors. In my view, most of this relates to the downregulation of the hyperactive adrenal response. Also, I'm having less inflammatory pain. These represent very significant gains, but I have a long way to go.

    Quantifying the severity of symptoms can be difficult, but I will give this a shot. Up until the first couple of weeks before the treatment, I would have classified my fatigue as moderate to severe. I had periods where I would struggle to stay away for large parts of the day---a feeling as if I had been given a tranquilizer. At this point, it has been 3 weeks or so since I have had any severe fatigue, and in the last week it was most mild, with some periods of moderate fatigue.

    The brain fog is more difficult to assess, because probably like others, I really don't even know what is normal anymore. I do not feel like the attention and concentration has returned to baseline, but there are certainly fewer periods of heavy fogginess.

    One other apparent side benefit has been the elimination of a trigger point. I'm not quite sure of the mechanism, but I've had this one stubborn trigger point that has been gradually getting better and better. That mass of fascia/muscle has gotten smaller and less painful. I had fibro many years ago, way before the fatigue, but it fully resolved. I just happened to have this trigger point develop a few years back, and ever since I started the SMP, this spot has been resolving. Perhaps this sounds like a stretch, but I'm fairly confident the b12-folate combination is involved here. It feels like muscular tension is easing.

    Detox symptoms continue. I would say the intensity of symptoms has been slightly reduced, with the frequency more significantly reduced. Some periods of nausea, headaches, other gi symptoms. I have definitely had fewer exacerbations of the brain fog. Some other stuff I cannot really attribute to, like sudden onsets of cold hands. I seem to have an increased intake of fluids.

    I don't have any objective data verifying improved methylation status because I haven't been tested, but there is plenty of subjective improvement. I have noticed a slight increase in my temperature, so I will be looking to see if this trend continues.

    One other observation. I added folinic acid this week, something I neglected to include originally as I bought the intrisi-b12, and I found that it caused me to become very sleepy--relaxed not fatigued. In the past, this has been a sign of supplements that I responded favorably too. PS, Co-Q and magnesium being others. Ribose and high-dose vit c having an opposite effect. I'm always amazed at how much my body can "tell me." It seems my cells wanted the phosphatidylserine, magnesium, coq-10, and now the folinic acid, but perhaps that ribose and high does vitamin c reprents fuel/nutrients that the mitocondria cannot use.
     
  3. Medman99

    Medman99

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    My 1st post here. I've been on this protocol for 3 days. I have slept the last 2 nights like a rock for 8 hrs. uninterrupted by waking/urination as is usual. That is worth it's weight in gold to me. I detoxed for 2 months prior to starting this with acs zeolite/acz nanosilver. Also started readisorb 5ml daily about 2 weeks ago and concurrently with this. My current regimen:
    1) Folapro- capsule folinic acid(thorne) 1/4 cap daily sublingually
    2) 5-mthf- capsule(thorne) 1/4 cap daily sublingually
    3) 1 tab 1000 mcg sublingual hydroxycobalamin daily (Intensive Nutrition)
    4) 1 tsp(5ml) readisorb liposomal glutathione daily at bedtime
    5) 3 x week 1/2 tsp (2.5ml) lipoflow (liposomal/phospholipid glutathione)
    6) 2 x week 250mg acetyl-l-carnitine
    7) 1 capful (1.6mg) wateroz magnesium daily-Wateroz the best Mg on the market for sensitive folks, bar none
    8) gaba 500mg or pharmagaba(thorne) 1-2 caps/day as needed for limbic kindling symptoms
    I sometimes supplement with thorne multi, molybdenum, taurine, aqua-e, mg ascorbate 500mg, 1-2 x week. Vitamin C seems to really whack me out as do high sulfur supplements. N-A-C and DMSA are like poison to me.
    In the past, I have felt methycobalamin to do me wrong as well.
    This regimen seems to agree with me so far, I will keep posting. I am maintaining FT employment and would rank myself as a 7 on the 0-10 scale.
    I avoid rx meds like the plague, as they only seem to make me sicker.
    PS, I am a medical professional and I appreciate the intelligent dialogue I am finding on this board. Thanks, all.
     
  4. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Vegas and Medman99.

    I appreciate your posting your updates. Glad to hear that the treatments are helping you. People typically report some ups and downs as they do this treatment, but overall the trend seems to be positive for most over time. Experience indicates that additional treatments will probably be needed in many cases, but lifting the partial methylation cycle block appears to be an important component. There is work going on now to try to understand the mechanisms associated with the retroviruses, and information so far indicates that both glutathione depletion and a methylation deficit will figure into the retrovirus pathogenesis mechanism, either as causes or effects. Methylation is known to silence genes, and it appears that the retrovirus genes might be silenced by methylation. The retrovirus may have ways of depleting glutathione. So I think we are working in the right areas of the biochemistry, and I'm hopeful that more progress in our understanding is coming soon. In the meantime, this type of treatment seems to help most people who have M.E./CFS, and a small number have reported what seems to be complete recovery. I'm not sure whether these few people were positive for the retroviruses or not.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  5. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    Hi to all,

    Id like to confirm medman99s experience that improving sleep is one of the first signs, even if you feel worse because of detox.

    Id like to ad that adressing the gut is one of the most important things Dr. Yasko does. I will explain this:

    methionine -synthase is one of the "weak" points of the methylation cycle. It is the point we are supporting by adding hydroxycobalamin and methyl-folate, it is also the point we can partly go around by using Methyl-B12. I want to consider as well that it is important to use folinic acid which is included in the products Rich suggest. Make always sure, that you use the actual protocol and dthe actual product. Rich, I would suggest to post the actuall methylation cycle protocol at the beginning of this thread and also which additional products were reported to be helpful additionally because Im not sure if everybody has everything in place. It is important to support ALL the points/enzymes of the methylation cycle that can be supported.

    So let me return to methionine-synthase: If someone uses methyl-B12 in large doses he/she will, in my opinion, prevent partly that methyl-folate is regenerated to tetrahydrofolic acid by transfering its methyl group to B12 because there is already methyl-B12. so this may lead to an impaired DNA/RNA synthesis, repair and cell deviding. So let me know rich, what you think.

    Then again, methionine-synthase is strongly inhibited by nitric oxide stress, (about 80% inhibition in vitro) so it wil be inhibited as long as you have nitric oxide stress which comes from either a cronic infection or form a leaky gut. Sepsis is known to cause extense nitric oxide stress and it is known that this is one of the life-threatening reasons because to the drop of the blood pressure. PWCs have often low blood pressure.

    So dont ever forget to adress the gut!!

    Medman99: I have sulfur problems too. increasing molybdenum has helped me much, I take 400g/d also adding ammonia support RNA could be useful for you but I have no experience myself so far with the RNA. Will try this now.

    be careful with zeolithe of you are sulfur sensitive because it is from vulcanic stone an a vulcan has always much much sulfur. I cant tolerate zeolithe. Maybe this is why yasko suggests activated charcoal to bind something. This also binds ammonia I think.
    I also miss a general multivitamin in your list. I am sure you can improve sour supplementation by going through the study rich has done and by trying to understand the approach of Dr. Yasko completely. You can find the methylation cycle here: http://www.dramyyasko.com/diagrams-listing/
    last graph shows the points you can support. First of all you should adress he ammonia problem because it mops up the BH4 and thsi causes a wide ranging problem.

    best regards,
    Joopiter
     
  6. Medman99

    Medman99

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    Hi, thanks for input. I take the occasional multi(Thorne, 1 x week, cant seem to tolerate any more). Also take molybdenum 1 x week. Most supps seem to make me sick if I try daily usage. Unfortunately, I'm off the regimen right now as I just had some "natural" earthweave carpet put in my house which totally threw me for a loop (MCS issues). My insomnia and anxiety are now in hyperdrive. I had to remove it after I found out they used regular high voc carpet glue to lay it down. I've had a hellacious 2 weeks and fell off the regimen due to my being in survival mode presently.
     
  7. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Medman99.

    I'm very sorry to hear about the hit you have had from the VOCs, and I hope that things will settle back down for you soon, after your house is "aired out" some more.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  8. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Trying a little different Approach

    Still plugging along with 9 weeks of Rich's protocol. I have continued to make some progress, but it has been very slow as of late. Some weeks have been better than others. The detox side effects have greatly diminshed, and I view this as an unfavorable development. Not that I enjoy the sulphur headaches, frequent bm's, burning eyes, & nausea, but after this settles down, I generally feel better than before. One thing I have I recently experimented with is going to a twice a day dosage. I have no idea if this is a logical approach, but I'm feeling my way through this. I wondered if the short half-life of some of these substances doesn't dictate a more frequent dosing schedule. In this regard, I have nearly double the dosage (folates and hydroxo as well. From my experience this twice daily dosage is helping lessen the p.e.m. and other oxidative stress symptoms a little bit. This has caused some constipation. (Perhaps because the endotoxin dieoff exceeds what I can clear?) I'm going to have to find a way to deal with this because constipation is not compatible to getting rid of the bad stuff. Anyway, I'm going to give this a shot for awhile. I sense that the extra cobalamin might be what I need.

    Awhile ago I mentioned how I had this stubborn trigger point that had resolved, and I swore it had something to do with the methylation protocol. The attached reference is probably the authoritative work on myofascial pain/trigger points. I found it very interesting that more than a decade ago the authors were talking about methylation problems as possibly involved in the pathogenesis of these trigger points. On a personal note, I have also interestingly started getting some new soreness in some of those areas where I had FM pain, about 15 years ago. I have very little pain today, it's mostly soreness, but I do find it interesting that those previously dormant areas seem to become "stimulated" somehow by the b12/folate therapy.

    Good luck to all.


    http://books.google.com/books?id=M2...onepage&q=myofascial pain methylation&f=false
     
  9. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    The Verdict is in: Don't get greedy.

    Twice daily dosage might be fine, assuming you make proportionate reductions in the total dosage--something I didn't do. Since I posted the last message yesterday afternoon, I have been in a haze. I'm experiencing some pretty heavy brain fog, and a new symptom...some dizziness/vertigo. A little nausea and worsening fatigue has also accompanied this exacerbation of symptoms. I don't believe this experiment into increasing the dosages so aggressively has been counterproductive. In my view, excessive b12/folates doesn't appear to result in set backs...just excessive unpleasant symptoms. I believe others have reported actual set backs, I'm just relating my own experiences. While I could tolerate the current symptoms, I still have to maintain a certain level of functionality; therefore, it looks like I will be going back to a more conservative dosing schedule for now.

    I'm still trying to understand these occasional mouth sores I have gotten. I recall some discussion about these as being related to deficits of b12.

    I think others have reported similar, but I find it interesting how certain treatments seem to produce a recurrence of symptoms, some from your remote past. I find this to generally represent a positive development. I remember when I first started hitting the GI tract with probiotics and a radical dietary change, all those old IBS symptoms resurfaced to a limited degree then have nearly totally resolved. Methylation treatment seems to call up some of those other symptoms as well.

    For those who question whether symptoms are actually "detox" symptoms, I think it is pretty clear that most of my symptoms would fall in that category...obviously excluding the baseline CFS symptoms. I also know that when I'm really feeling the detox symptoms my wife and kids often remark about the smell of my perspiration. Perhaps this is a yeast die off.

    I'm eager to stop the protocol for a few days to see how I feel without the detox symptoms. So far, I have continued without any lapses.
     
  10. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Vegas.

    Thanks for posting the updates.

    Some people find that increasing the magnesium intake, such as with Milk of Magnesia, is a good way to control the constipation while also adding magnesium, which is usually deficient in CFS.

    According to Dr. Amy Yasko, from whose treatment program the simplified treatment was extracted, people who have polymorphisms in the genes for methionine synthase and methionine synthase reductase, may have to increase their B12 dosages by quite a lot, but the folates usually dont need to be increased.

    I think it's O.K. to take a break from the protocol to see what the progress has been. Others have found this to be encouraging. So long as it doesn't go on for a long time, I don't think one loses much ground in doing so. This opinion is based on the notion that detox of stored toxins is what is going on, and whatever has already been detoxed has been eliminated, sort of like "money in the bank." I realize that freddd has a different view about this, but it may depend on what one's actual abnormality is.

    I hope things will continue to improve for you, once you get back to a tolerable dosage.

    Rich
     
  11. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Thanks for the thougts. I got a little overzealous when I felt as if the detox had stalled over the prior wek. I'm still "recovering" and experiencing periods of brain fog and dizziness/spacey feeling despite taking a 1 day break. At least the headaches have abated. Something interesting happened though. In the midst of the most intese detox yesterday, I started to feel like I was really starting to get some of those chemical reactions underway. Fatigue and some other symptoms started to lessen, and for the first time it felt like I had kick started something in a major way. It was as if my metabolism stepped up a notch. Unfortunately, at the same time I felt very ill, and the intensity of symptoms keeps me from pursuing such an aggresive course. Looks like individual tolearance is the limiting factor here.

    As for your comments about stored toxins, I believe your explanation is consistent with my experiences and observations. I suspect some ME-CFS patients will identify with some of the "startup" responses that Freddd reports. I had some minor neuropathic pain that has improved. Nevertheless, the core symptoms that correlate to the protocol supplements are certainly detox symptoms. If I aggressively dial up the b vitamins, the overall feeling is one of being poisoned. Moly is working well for the headaches, but I need to get some binders because I am reluctant to slow this down too much.
     
  12. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Just wanted to pass on a ten week update. This past weekend I had an obligation to fulfill that required physical work that far exceeded my current capacity. I was concerned about being able to accomplish this, so over the two days I overloaded the cobalamins, not knowing really what was going to happen. In what marks the first substantial diversion from Rich's protocol, I took methyl and adenosylcobalamin sublinguals two days in a row along with my usual half pills of folates. What I discovered is that this greatly increased my resistance to oxidative stress. While I still felt quite bad, I no doubt had additional energy and less p.e.m. than before, and I had not exerted myself like this in a long time. Once again, there were other symptoms that abated and I felt like the metabolic processes were set in motion very agressively. Of course, by yesterday evening there was a major price to be paid. I was terribly ill last night with nausea and perhaps the worst headache I have ever had...among other symptoms. These symptoms have changed somewhat from earlier. Although the headaches were similar to those I have experienced since starting the protocol, these intense symptoms were not associated with the gland pain, and other gi symptoms that I would associate with the yeast/bacterial die off. The recent symptoms were very similar to a massive hangover. Four ibuprofen wouldn't touch the headache, but 600 mcg of moly seemed to help out. When the detox engine is throttled up one tends to develop constipation. In this case that's what happened, so I went the mag. sulfate route to help clear the toxins. (probably not smart for someone with these biochemical frailties) Surprisingly this morning I didn't feel too bad. Somewhat dehydrated, but the p.e.m. relative to the amount of exertion is very promising. I think this is the first time I can say the p.e.m. has moved in a positive direction.

    I don't think that it is any surprise that this "binging" on active folates or perhaps double/triple hydroxo might be one way to move a lot of toxins fast, but you have to be willing to accept a heavy price, and one cannot forget to move those bowels. What I wasn't expecting was such a dramatic improvement of the core CFS symptoms, albeit temporary and obscured by the detox symptoms. Rich I like your analogy, I feel like this weekend's experience is money in the bank.

    What else that seems to happen is that after I take a break from the protocol, some of the symptom improvement lessens fairly quickly. There is a bit of a "honeymoon" period between the end of the detox symptoms and the short respite period before I start the supplements again.

    In Short:
    1. driving the supplements very hard clearly seems to restart some pathways that results in significant symptom reduction, and it really extends across the board globally...tolerance to foods, sympathetic nervous system response, energy, etc.
    2. Don't agressively titrate unless you have a very significant tolerance for discomfort...I was severely ill last night.
    3. Focus on hydration and elmination as agressively as possible, should you push the limits of detox
    4. Prepare to take a step back after you reduce dosages, but in my opinion, this is not a true regression rather a temporary reduction of the chemical/metabolic processes.
    5. You may find that your detox symptoms fundamentally change over time. At first mine were clearly involving at least in part some biologic agent, now I have no idea what is coming out...chemicals, metals?? Fortunately this week has started with no exacerbation of brain fog. We will see if that trend continues tomorrow as the biochemical processes continue to slow without all those active B12's.

    I'm not suggesting anyone do this "binge" and "purge" method of detoxing because it's like inducing a horrible illness. Conversely, the pain is relatively brief and each day I become more convinced that the route to healing involves detoxification because these episodes are correlated to symptomatic improvement, eventhough these are not fully maintained when the supplement binge is discontinued. Also bear in mind that this (detox) is a concept I did not adopt readily or without great cynicism, but it is one that has increasingly fit my experiences.

    And finally, this has not been a pleasant experience nor has every day been marked by good days or obvious improvement. The improvement has not been perfectly linear. Their have been good weeks and bad weeks and perhaps the best couple of days were experienced earlier in the treatment; however, when I step back and look at the bigger picture there has been marked improvement in most areas. How far will this take me, I just don't know. What I do know is that B vitamins are doing something remarkable.
     
  13. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Vegas.

    Sorry for the delay in responding. I was off-line for a few days, working on a house restoration project.

    Thanks for posting such a detailed description of your experience on the methylation treatment. I think your interpretation of what has gone on is probably pretty accurate. It's nice to hear that molybdenum helps with the headaches, and that does suggest that elevated sulfite may be the cause of them. I think the advice you've offered based on your experience is very valid and should be helpful to others. I'm hopeful that your improvements will continue on to a high degree of recovery.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  14. Joopiter76

    Joopiter76 Senior Member

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    Hi, did anyone recognize a slowing down of hair and nail growth on this or the Yasko protocol? I really wonder. It cant be a deficiency I take so much supps. And by the way I continue to improve. I really had profit from taking the product "raw thyroid" form natural sources. I dont want to miss this. I take two caps (2x1) a day.
     
  15. wciarci

    wciarci Wenderella

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    Hi all, I posted a thread under general treatments sections, I am almost two weeks in and have a bad rash/hives reaction that seems to correspond to lymph areas. I am very allergic to nickel and this is close to the rash I develop if nickel (ie bad costume jewelry) is against my skin. Wondering what to do. SAMe and more B12 has lessened the itchyness as I read that they scavenge histomine. Is this bad? Should I try to work the lymph system and if so, how? Do I go on a juice fast? I have been pulsing the last week but that hasn't changed anything.

    Wendy
     
  16. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times

    But, in my view, this is actually how it has to be. You cannot make progress without a little pain...or on some days a lot. I think this is also why it is very easy to get discouraged if you pursue this treatment...depending on how aggressive the course. Perhaps one of the most important things to learn is how to discriminate detox symptoms from others, and knowing when the methylation support needs to be reigned in. If the detox symptom intensity and duration is proportionate to the illness burden, then I probably have a long journey ahead. Nevertheless, the intensity of the detox symptoms provoked nearly 15 weeks after I started gives hope that I will be able to reach a much better level of health. No response at all to the protocol, has to be discouraging. For those who have not responded, I would speculate that some have a very high viral load and need some immune support. Just my thought based on how I have responded to a couple of recent URI's. A stupid cold may be feel like I was dying and I temporarily thought I was regressing, but after it passed I was better than before.

    I continued to be amazed by just how much stuff my body continues to try to eliminate. My body is like a superfund site. I must be dealing with some biofilms because it's like I take off a layer, things stabilize, and then I get another round of toxins in the blood. I am also apparently producing bile at record rates. Typically these bile dumps are preceded by a stupor of brain fog. Lots of muscle pain too. Not FM, but more achy, cytokine-like pain. (you know the kind when you get the flu/cold)

    Definitely getting some improvement of the dysbiosis and intestinal permeability. Although this is certainly related to diet, probiotics, etc., I presume a boost in glutathione is playing a significant part.

    This week I decided to try to pre-empt a cold virus that I was fighting; having four young kids I get exposed to all kinds of stuff and I didn't want to feel like I did after the last one a couple of weeks ago. Accordingly, I decided to hit it with everything I had: Liposomal vitamin c, zinc, olive leaf extract, etc. It turns out I didn't get the cold, but it was interesting because it precipitated some herx symptoms including some mild kidney and significant prostate pain, bloating, reflux, gastritis, productive coughing, frequent bms, runny nose. Actually, I don't regularly have any of these symptoms, but there appeared to be a synergistic effect by adding these nutrients and supplements. I have no doubt some of these symptoms relate to a yeast die off, but I have no idea what comprises the entire reaction. It seems I am concurrently detoxing from my lungs, nose, urine, and bowels, and this happens nearly every time I dial up the methylation support, or in some cases some complementary supplements. it just makes me wonder how heavy an underlying burden exists. There is no doubt the gut is an enormous piece of the puzzle, but the methylation supplements are obviously critical, and given how long I have treated the gut, I think progress without the methylation support would have been futile.

    Misc. Comments.

    Sulfite headaches are greatly reduced...I trust this is a positive development.
    Currently taking 1-2 mg of methyl and occasional adenosyl. Hydroxo works great, just takes 5-6 mg to have same effect. (Would recommend those with true CFS--PEM being a defining symptom-- to start with hydroxocobalamin)
    taking 400-800 metafolin + 400-800 folinic acid. As rich suggested, I don't seem to have a need for anymore.
    Less lymph soreness than before.

    Sorry if this is rambling, I'm dealing with some pretty heavy brain fog right now...but this is temporary and predictable based upon the b12 dosage. I think one just has to understand what is happening in their bodies, and they may gain the confidence to push onward.
     
  17. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

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    Hi, Vegas.

    Again, thank you for posting an update. Sounds like you're having lots of fun! :)-)

    I hope you will be able to clear out the bulk of the toxins soon, and start feeling a whole lot better.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  18. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Can I ask how long you have been ill vegas?
    You might also want to keep an eye on minerals..since they get lost along with metals.
    ETA: Are you really taking 2 of yasko's multis a day???
    I know healthy people who can't tolerate that amount.
    You must be superman.
    Who is yr doc btw?
     
  19. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    It's hard to say how long I've been sick only because there have been different components, but I am very confident they are all interrelated. I've actually only had Fatigue for 18 months. I had only marginal fatigue prior to my crash in the Summer of 2009, but I had bad PEM, brain fog and a host of other symptoms for 10 years. I also experienced approx 1.5 yr bouts of IBS & FM in the five years before that, but both of these joyful ailments fully resolved. As far fetched as it sounds, I only crashed after I switched to an ultra low-carb diet. This was not a smart thing for someone who was a conditioned endurance athlete acclimated to a high-carb diet and already feeling the effects of severe oxidative stress. The reason I stuck with the diet is that it was greatly improving my brain fog. Before the crash I could recover from intense exercise after a few days, but my brain fog was perpetual. I kept up the exercise because I basically only felt good afterwards. After the crash there was no recovery and a host of new wonderful symptoms. It is pretty clear now that my body had ramped up production of cortisol as far as it could, and I was operating on adrenaline and insulin for a very long time before I crashed. With the dietary changes and the drastic decline in glucose levels and insulin, my body went into full panic mode. I had a couple months of massive adrenaline surges which caused crazy swings of my blood sugar. Not many could possibly have had reactive hypoglycemia to the extent that I had. I also dropped ten pounds from an already lean frame, so perhaps there was a concommitant mobilization of stuff when this weight came off. The experience was surreal, I recall the first time I tried to call the doctor, my tremors were so bad and my voice so shaky, I could barely talk. Later, I got these surges that I would liken to a panic attack, without the anxiety. On a couple of instances I had what I would call autonomic breathing..I'm sure there is a real term for this, but basically my body forced me to breathe, it was not a volutary diaphramatic movement but some chemically/neurologically induced action...very weird. Over a period of 3-4 months I steadily became more weak and fatigued. This plainly placed huge demands on glutathione, and I'm pretty sure i have trouble metabolizing adrenaline based upon how long my head would stay foggy after an adrenaline surge. COMT++++++++++++++++++++++ I would imagine.

    Yes, funny you should speak of minerals, I think I have experienced this. With the more agressive detox over the past month, I have definitely had more muscle pain--not just the cytokine achy feeling, but more soreness & discomfort. I bet this relates to some mineral deficienies because I haven't taken this replinshment too seriously lately.

    Yasko's multi, yes 2/day for months. Never bothered me.

    Doctor. I don't have one. If you know a good one in the Commonwealth of Virgina let me know. I know a ton of docs, and none could recommend a fatigue specialist in this area, and I grew weary of trying to find someone who has a clue about this stuff.
     
  20. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Virginia
    Yeah Rich, this has been a blast! If I clear out those toxins too fast I might lose my grant status as a superfund site, so I'm going to have to take it more slowly. :)
     

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