1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
For Jody Smith, the ticking of a clock was enough at one time to chase her back to her bed. But with the passage of time, she has been able to reclaim her living room ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Rich Vank's Simplified Methylation Protocol Poll

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Apr 21, 2010.

?

I have tried Rich Vanks Simplified Methylation Protocol with the following results:

  1. I am in effective remission (80%+)

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  2. Major Improvement

    20 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Minor improvement

    22 vote(s)
    27.5%
  4. No change

    22 vote(s)
    27.5%
  5. Minor crash

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  6. Moderate crash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Major crash

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. Unable to continue protocol

    12 vote(s)
    15.0%
  1. Bluebell

    Bluebell Senior Member

    Messages:
    392
    Likes:
    210
    FranzFan,

    I agree with Valentijn - it seems that Rich advocated starting out with hydroxocobalamin first, and only switching to methyl after a few months if it didn't seem to work.

    To check out some good summaries of what Rich's protocol is, and learn other methylation information, see the link that is indicated in my signature line below (and make sure to read the post at the very end of the thread - it's got more detail than the first post) -->

    You should be taking the multi-vitamin - your body needs all the other nutrients in order to be able to utilize the B12 and folate you are taking. Most say to start with the multi and have that going for a little while before starting the methylation-specific supps. You don't have to take Yasko's multi particularly - you can approximate it by looking at the ingredients list - and not everything in it is totally necessary - but you should be taking the larger array of the B vitamins, the other vitamins, and the minerals at the very least.

    You can do the 23andme genetic testing from the UK. They ship internationally. The basic price is still $99 (which would be 60 or so pounds). It's worth it, in my opinion, and you find out so much more than just your methylation mutations.
     
    Valentijn likes this.
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    6,521
    Likes:
    9,669
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    Shipping internationally about doubles the price. A bit of an "ouch" but still worth it :p
     
  3. Bluebell

    Bluebell Senior Member

    Messages:
    392
    Likes:
    210
    It's beyond the editing timeframe now, so I can't augment my post above, but I have run across one of Rich's explanations of when to move from his preferred type B12 to the other 2 types, and thought I'd quote him directly:

    "I still suggest trying hydroxocobalamin as the B12 form first. If this hasn't produced benefit in 3 months, then I would suggest doing some testing to find out why, or doing a trial of Freddd's protocol. I would suggest starting at lower dosages than he recommends at first, if you do this, in order to lower the likelihood of a severe drop in potassium in the blood, which can be hazardous, and also to allow glutathione to come up, as we showed in our clinical study will occur if the methylation cycle is not overdriven.
    I realize that Freddd may have different views on this, but I think it is wise to proceed cautiously, because large dosages of methyl B12 together with 5L-methylfolate will take control away from the cells. I have seen a few cases now in which testing has shown that this can overdrive the methylation cycle to the detriment of building glutathione, which is necessary to correct many of the symptoms of ME/CFS.
    I suspect that the rapid rise in folates in the cells with this high-dose protocol also gives rise to rapid proliferation of cells, leading to a high demand for potassium. Since it has been shown that whole-body potassium is low in ME/CFS, a large potassium demand can lower the blood level of potassium, and this can have serious detrimental consequences.
    I realize that if a person has an inborn error of metabolism in the B12 processing enzymes, as Freddd appears to have, there is no other choice but to use methyl B12 and adenosyl B12, together with L5-methylfolate. In that case, I still think it is a good idea to start at lower dosages at first, to see how it goes. As Freddd has repeatedly pointed out, it is hazardous to drive potassium too low."
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methylation-very-low-very-slow-results.9849/page-3

    This is another quote by Rich that mentions additional concerns:
    "I chose to use hydroxocobalamin on the basis that this would allow the cells to convert it to as much methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin that they needed.
    In the full Yasko program, Dr. Yasko characterizes certain polymorphisms to decide whether methylcobalamin or hydroxocobalamin are preferable for a given patient.
    In making this choice, I realized that there would probably be some people who would not respond as well as others, because of genetic variations. However, I was also concerned that high-dosage methylcobalamin might methylate inorganic mercury and move it into the brain. This is chemically possible, and has been observed in guinea pigs, though not demonstrated in the human body, and I knew that many PWCs have high body burdens of mercury.
    An additional concern I have is that high-dose methylcobalamin might overdrive the methylation cycle, since the amount of methylcobalamin will not be under the control of the cells themselves. The possible effects of overdriving the methylation cycle are not known. My concern is that it can prevent flow down the transsulfuration pathway, and thus affect the recovery of the balance of the sulfur metabolism.
    Also, if there is not effective control of the SAME/SAM ratio by glycine N-methyl transferase, this ratio may go too high, which would affect gene expression in general as well as other methyltransferase reactions in the body. Since this is unknown territory, I would prefer to avoid it by testing to see how the methylation cycle and related pathways are faring, and limiting methylcobalamin accordingly. But again, there is no proof that this is actually a problem for most people.
    This choice is one of the major differences between Freddd's protocol and the one I have suggested. Freddd uses high-dose sublingual methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin together, and finds that hydroxocobalamin is not helpful for himself and some others."
    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...to-methylation-block-theory.9791/#post-178851
     
    Sherpa, Mogwai, Sparrowhawk and 2 others like this.
  4. Johnmac

    Johnmac Senior Member

    Messages:
    155
    Likes:
    40
    Cambodia
    I began the SMP in January 2013, because I was having radical reactions to sulphur/thiol-containing foods. This is because I am chelating mercury (& other heavy metals) with alpha lipoic acid (Cutler Protocol), and this redistributes a fair bit of mercury round the body. Thiols bond weakly with mercury atoms, dragging & dropping them more than would otherwise happen.

    This redistribution caused symptoms in me of nausea, fatigue, diarrhea & brainfog. In the end (as chelation progressed) a drop or two of onion juice in my salad would put me in bed. Life ground to a halt.

    Within a week of beginning the SMP these reactions had ceased, & I was able to lead a normal life. I can now munch thiol foods to my heart's content, & there are zero symptoms. Over 6 months I have also been able to increase my dosage of alpha lipoic acid from 50 to 200 mg without ill-effects.

    I extended the SMP after a while to include methyl B12, but didn't notice any change.

    I later had my gene testing done at 23andme, and thereafter tried various other supplements that supposedly helped with the SNPs identified - but again didn't notice anything.

    I'd conclude that the methylfolate was the big gun I needed, tho I don't understand mechanisms much.
     
  5. newradost

    newradost

    Messages:
    84
    Likes:
    11
    Bulgaria
    Hi,
    I want to share with you some good news. We are getting better and it's very fast. So please read it.

    Me and my 4yo son have symptoms close to MCAD. histaminosis, bloating, allergies, headaches, brain fog, anaphylaxis.
    I have made many tests including DNA parasite stool test. I took notes and my boy reacts at the 5th day before NewMoon and at Full moon so I suspect parasites, as they closely follow the moon for reproduction.

    We are now on anti parasites drugs but the really helpful are the enemas with Chlorine Dioxide.
    The enemas are bringing out 50cm long rope parasites. The rope parasite is a newly found parasite and it is so different that known meds are not of help. So only enemas are killing it after 7-12 hours.

    I will give you the links to educate yourself and have in mind that the whole Autism Society is having this rope parasite:

    http://www.chronicdiseaseresearchfoundation.org/genome-project/
    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1301/1301.0953.pdf
    http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1301/1301.2845.pdf

    Fill free to contact me if you have questions,


    Regards,
    Radost
     
  6. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

    Messages:
    118
    Likes:
    47
    Ashland, OR
    Cool post, Radost. I will share this with my friend who has not yet had the courage to tackle this issue. If you happen to get sick later, you might want to look into some metals detoxification (Al, Pb, Hg). Parasites harbor metals. But it sounds like you are doing very well. I'm so glad.

    Mimi
     
  7. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,034
    Likes:
    616
    England
    Vegas,

    Me can cause resistance to the action of Insulin, Ribose can cause rapid restoration of Insulin action thus resulting in low blood sugar and all the symptoms you list. If this happens try a couple of teaspoons of sugar dissolved under your tongue. If you start to feel better keep doing it until you no longer feel the symptoms. Then eat solid food. This should only happen at the start of treatment, it should not keep occurring (with Ribose). This symptom of Ribose was identified by Jacob Titelbaum (see endfatigue.com)

    Rich's Protocol has the possibility of causing similar temporary problems when it improves ATP production.

    Brian
     
    Radio likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page