1. Patients launch a $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
The Mighty Egg: New Life Springs Forth Despite ME/CFS
Jody Smith finds that even with ME/CFS, new life as symbolized by the mighty egg, can still spring forth ...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Rich Vank's Simplified Methylation Protocol Poll

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Cort, Apr 21, 2010.

?

I have tried Rich Vanks Simplified Methylation Protocol with the following results:

  1. I am in effective remission (80%+)

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  2. Major Improvement

    20 vote(s)
    25.6%
  3. Minor improvement

    22 vote(s)
    28.2%
  4. No change

    21 vote(s)
    26.9%
  5. Minor crash

    2 vote(s)
    2.6%
  6. Moderate crash

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Major crash

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  8. Unable to continue protocol

    11 vote(s)
    14.1%
  1. richvank

    richvank Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes:
    737
    Hi Rich - TY for your analysis.

    ***Hi, Jeffrez. You're welcome.

    My alt doc is in MA, I'm going in a couple weeks, think I'll see if they can order & run the methylation panel from there. I assume the results will be faster that way than waiting for everything to go to Europe and back?

    ***Probably so.

    Is any special test kit required, or can we just send standard blood draws from MA and have HD take care of it using those & a credit card #?

    ***Yes, there's a special kit. The vials have a proprietary combination of enzyme blockers in them, which is what preserves glutathione from all becoming oxidized after it is taken out of the body.

    In the meantime, think I will reduce mb12 even more, down to around 1mg, with the intent of switching over to hydroxy as soon as I can order and receive that. Without the sublingual mb12, my b12 was almost totally wiped out, but I was also on the omeprazole at that time, so it's hard to say if it's from intrinsic factor deficiency or b/c of the drug. Either way, think I feel more comfortable with hydroxy at this point, as the IVs I had with mb12 seemed to cause side effects, the first time even lasting for a couple weeks. The hydroxy IVs by contrast have been fine.

    ***O.K.

    I didn't think folate conversion was an issue for me, b/c I get the same super low heart rate and depression symptoms both from methylfolate and standard folic acid. But maybe there is some issue there slowing down conversion, which I suppose is very hard to say w/out the meth panel. Otoh, I don't seem to get those symptoms from the folate in the B-right, strangely enough, which is why I was taking that - to at least be getting some supplemental folate. If it's not converting though, or converting too slowly to be effective, I guess it's just counterproductive at this point, and I should dump the B-right for one of the non-folate B-complexes and start micro-dosing the methylfolate.

    Does all that sound right, or at least reasonable? : P

    ***I think it does.

    Was hoping to avoid the methylation panel b/c of the expense, but it might be better to just put all guesswork aside and know for sure. Can you say with certainty that there would be distinct advantages from a treatment standpoint from having the test, as opposed to just trial and error and seeing what works clinically, and with standard labs guiding me as far as the folate & b12 levels?

    ***I think it's best to know what you're dealing with. The standard blood serum tests for folate and B12 are not very useful in ME/CFS.

    Btw, I also have low CD8, high EBV, and some other infections - mycoplasma pneumoniae, etc. Think we're going to work on treating those at my next visit, as I'm sure those are playing into this presumed GSH-depletion problem, also.

    ***I think you're right about that. It looks to me now that it is necessary to do methylation treatment as well as going after the infections specifically.

    ***I hope this works out well for you.

    ***Best regards,

    ***Rich
  2. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    347
    Likes:
    412
    northern Maine
    I'm so sorry that our friend Rich has left us. Since this thread is still open, I'd like to post my results to-date with the SMP.

    I started the supplements almost a month ago, starting with the vitamin (1/4 tablet) and slowly adding the others and then increasing the doses. I'm currently taking 1 vitamin tablet, for the other supplements I'm on the full dose recommended by Rich. In addtion to Rich's protocol, I started Co Q10 in early summer. After about 3 months the migraines became milder and fewer, but I still experienced the PEM after just tiny amounts of activity. In September I added an Astragalus & Ligustrum combination pill. It seemed to help some.

    After a few weeks on the SMP I have experienced a dramatic improvement in the illness. I signed a contract for a small project on Monday, so I'm back in the software business, after five years of barely doing any of that kind of work. I've been working on firewood 1/2 to 1 hour a day, nearly every day, so I will actually have heat this winter. In September I had no idea how I was going to heat my house. A few days ago I opened my saxophone case, for the first time in over six months, and have played a few minutes each day. It will be some time yet before I can go back to the bands I used to play in, but at least I'm headed in the right direction.

    I'm nowhere near 100%, even so I feel like I've woken from the dead, and there is the possibility that I might be able to make a living again, instead of depending on my 76 year old mom on Social Security to pay my electric bill. I have had remissions before, once for several months, so my attitude is one of 'cautious optimism'. For as long as it lasts, I will continue to do as much as I can without triggering a crash.

    For me, 'working on firewood' means using a chainsaw, splitting wood by axe and maul, throwing it into the basement, and stacking it. The fact that I can do this work, for short periods of time, without muscle soreness, after months and months of barely getting off the couch, really puts the boot to the idea that we all suffer from 'deconditioning' (although some probably do) and 'laziness'. I doubt the yahoos promoting that garbage even know how to hold an axe (or any other tool), much less use one to split firewood (or do anything useful).

    It's really disturbing to think that Medicaid spent boatloads of money on useless tests and useless doctors, as I continued to get worse, when it appears at this moment that what I needed was a handful of supplements that have cost about $200 so far.

    I hope that my post will encourage other folks to study Rich's protocol and consider giving it a go. It's a lot cheaper than those damn 'specialists' and their horrible pharmaceuticals.
    Anteah, camas, ggingues and 2 others like this.
  3. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    45
    SF Bay Area
    Jimells, I am so glad to hear that. I, too, found I was enough improved to go after a job in the software industry. To protect my energy, I turned down a possible interview at Google and happily took a university job instead.

    I start on Monday and I really don't know if I'll be able to handle it. But I feel so blessed and guided in finding this job that I am going to trust that somehow it will all work out.

    I wish the same to you - continued recovery and ability to work and play a little on the side. I'm sure Rich VanK would have been very gratified to hear your news.
    jimells likes this.
  4. ggingues

    ggingues $10 gift code at iHerb GAS343 of $40

    Messages:
    3,913
    Likes:
    780
    Concord, NH
    Jim, please don't over exert yourself. I did that kind of work as a kid and young man, it's pretty laborious. It will be good test of your recovery, just try to listen to your body. I know winter is coming, and you probably don't want to freeze to death, and oil is very expensive compared to years ago. I am living paycheck to paycheck, my fuel bill is really hurting me.

    GG
    Anteah likes this.
  5. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    347
    Likes:
    412
    northern Maine
    GG, thanks for your concern. I'm very careful not to over exert - I'm all too familiar with the consequences. I nearly have enough wood in the basement to get through the winter, and I'll be glad to be done with it for a while. More problematic is attempting to arrange for transportation to town to get groceries or see the lawyer. At home, when I get tired I can stop and lay down. Halfway through a 2 hour appointment with the lawyer on Wednesday, I didn't have the option of crashing on a couch. Plus I still had to get to the grocery store, then back home. Waaay too much activity for one day.

    I heard recently that Maine has cut its use of home-heating fuel oil in half in the past few years. Wood pellet stoves and furnaces are very popular in my area. They are a good option until the power goes out and they only burn pellets. My furnace will burn any form of wood, including cut-up pallets, although I hate dealing with the nails. It's quite frightening to see how little oil one gets for $200.

    I would be galled to live in the shadow of the giant radioactive waste site known as Seabrook (which I fought against in the '70s) and still have to buy fuel oil. Electricity cheap enough to heat with could partially mitigate the huge risk of living near that white elephant.

    mimi, I'm fortunate in that I don't have the stress of hunting for work and attempting to sell myself. The client is desparate for me to complete the project, as it means they won't have to spend $25,000 on a stand-alone solution that probably won't play nice with their existing systems. Good luck with your new job. I hope the university treats you well.
  6. Anteah

    Anteah Senior Member

    Messages:
    107
    Likes:
    21
    Las Vegas, Nevada

    This post has truly warmed my heart! I am so glad that you are doing better!!! Methylation protocol (+some this and thats) does really seem to do it! This is wonderful that you found it working for you so well. I just discovered it 6 months ago and same here - a different person! How great to finally be able to find "the answer"!
  7. Pegasus

    Pegasus

    Messages:
    37
    Likes:
    4
    what is Astragalus & Ligustrum ?
  8. jimells

    jimells Senior Member

    Messages:
    347
    Likes:
    412
    northern Maine
    It's a Chinese herbal supplement. Astragalus may have some anti-viral properties, and maybe does something to the immune system. I haven't been able to find out much about the ligustrum. The supplement has some other 'stuff' too.

    Unfortunately my current remission peaked right around Thanksgiving, I'm not doing nearly as well right now, but still much better than over the summer. I did manage to cut just about enough firewood before getting worse, so that was a huge help. The migraines are still much improved, and I'm still able to work on computer software a few hours a day, a few days a week.

    I don't expect recovery, if that's what I'm experiencing, to go in a straight line, so I remain cautiously optimistic.
  9. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes:
    406
    United States
    I actually stumbled onto this post because I'm considering taking some type of zeolite either powder or liquid. If anyone knows the difference between powder and liquid zeolite in terms of both efficacy and potential risk I'd like to hear it, but I also have a more broad question outlined in the paragraph below.

    I've been trying to figure out the order to do things for my treatment and I know it probably varies from person to person, but I've been trying methylation and I think I might need to detox first before I go all out in a methylation protocol. I'm dealing with Lyme with possible viruses/viral coinfections and also possible mercury/copper toxicity. Is there any way to figure out which order I should do things other than trial and error? Going low and slow seems like a good idea, but I'd like to hear some theories so I'm not going into this blind. Also, I seem to be a lot more sensitive to supplements now. Even things that I tolerated fine in the past appear to give me problems now.
  10. Johnmac

    Johnmac

    Messages:
    76
    Likes:
    17
    Cambodia
    I've used the latest version of the SMP for a month.

    The first week I had quite mild headache and nausea.

    Thereafter I didn't notice anything until, after 2 weeks, I noticed I could eat thiol foods again.

    I'm chelating mercury, and had stirred up a lot of the stuff - giving me effectively a major reaction to any foods containing thiols/sulphur. E.g. a couple of drops of onion juice would put me in bed for 2 days.

    Now I munch cloves of raw garlic through the day - no ill-effects whatever.

    This might not seem a big thing to some people, but thiol reactions were eating up a big slice of my life, and now they're gone.
  11. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes:
    406
    United States
    I thought the only problem with folic acid was that it could block methylfolate. When I took B Right, I definitely felt the effects of the methylfolate even with the folic acid in it and also folic acid from my multi so I didn't think there was a problem with me taking folic acid too. I'm not sure if I'm able to convert folic acid to methylfolate though. Also, I don't understand the "folate trap". Rich is saying that it causes other folates to be converted into methylfolate, but that sounds like a good thing (?)
  12. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes:
    406
    United States
    I don't think my question in my previous post was clear so I'll rephrase it in hopes that someone can give me an answer. If folic acid isn't sufficiently blocking methylfolate for me are there any other reasons why I shouldn't take folic acid?
  13. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes:
    406
    United States
    I'd like to know more about nucleotides and how to supplement with them. It seems like that's the main reason why Rich recommends Yasko's Neurological Health formula. What are the other options besides the NHF multi? For example, Swanson is having a buy one get one free offer on ImunilĀ® Mixed Nucleotides, but there was another thread where someone was saying there's something special about Yasko's nucleotide formula.
  14. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes:
    406
    United States
    Which toxins are lipid soluble?
  15. lch1

    lch1

    Messages:
    5
    Likes:
    4
    Mid Atlantic area, USA
    This protocol changed my life within 2 months. I am shocked to find out today that Rich passed away last Fall. He communicated to me via email and was smart, caring and devoted. I gave him feedback every so often and he was very encouraging. Rich was on to something and he will be missed. I hope his colleagues carry on his work, but he was surely a unique researcher and had a quality of exploration that few could match. In addition to my fatigue that resulted directly from a bout with walking pneumonia, I discovered I have a mutation of the C677T gene and it was merely luck that I happened along this protocol as it directly addresses that issue. I hope everyone has the luck that I experienced. I'm not 100% better, but most of the way. Best health to all. Farewell to Rich Van Konynenburg, a true pioneer.
    ggingues, Lotus97 and Johnmac like this.
  16. Lotus97

    Lotus97 Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes:
    406
    United States
    lch1
    Glad to hear you had success with the protocol. Do you have any tips for people just starting out?
  17. Johnmac

    Johnmac

    Messages:
    76
    Likes:
    17
    Cambodia
    I'll second that. Rich's protocol has had big effects on my life.

    John

  18. sunking101

    sunking101

    Messages:
    25
    Likes:
    2
    I had been doing ok whilst taking a Thorne Basic B Complex and 1/2 a Jarrow 1000mcg sublingual B12 lozenge. I had been doing this protocol for around a month and had experienced significantly more energy, was sleeping better and my PEM was greatly reduced.
    However, keen to try Hydroxy B12 rather than methyl, I substituted half a hydroxy B12 sublingual (again of 1000mcg strength) and continued the same regime with the addition of 1/4 of a Solgar methylfolate tablet. I noticed even more energy and less inflammation but otherwise the same. After a few days on this regime my appetite skyrocketed, I had an insatiable hunger and was piling on weight. I also started to experience regular palpitations and depression. I have since gone back to the methyl B12 rather than hydroxy (only a couple of days now) but still feel rubbish.
    I thought hydroxy was less powerful than methylcobalamin, so why did hydroxy bring a slew of worsening symptoms?
    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
  19. FranzFan

    FranzFan

    Messages:
    16
    Likes:
    2
    Hi All. I have been on this protocol for around 6 weeks now, taking metafolin, folinic acid and methyl b-12. I haven't noticed too many changes to how I feel but will persist. Two questions I had, which I couldn't find easy answers to in this thread to date:

    - Apart from a mulit-vitamin and lecithin, are there any other supplements that may be considered as very important to take in addition to the three that I am currently on?
    - I am still a relative beginner to methylation, and I don't fully understand the difference between L-methylfolate and 5-MTHF. Would there be a reason why I should consider taking both of these supplements, or is it a case of either or?

    Unfortunately I don't have any genetic testing to go on, mainly because it is so expensive when based in the UK as I am, so I figured it would be more beneficial to get on the protocol and see what happens. Thanks very much for any help you can provide.
  20. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Messages:
    5,851
    Likes:
    7,894
    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    MethylB12 can cause potassium issues. I believe Richvank's protocol advocates for use of hydroxyB12 instead.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page