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Rich, et al: REVERSED "Methyl-Folate-Trap" in Zinc Deficiency?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by dannybex, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Seattle
    Hi Rich, and all,

    I stumbled across this paper while googling a few weeks ago, right before you went to Sweden, but was wondering if you'd have time to comment or help interpret for those of us who are scientifically challenged?

    http://search.engrant.com/project/A67Gck/reversed_methyl_folate_trap_in_zinc_deficiency

    "In preliminary studies we have observed that the activity of methionine
    synthetase as significantly increased in zinc-deficient rats
    (ZD) compared
    to restricted-fed (RF) or ad-libitum-fed controls. Concomitantly, there
    was: 1) a decreased proportion of methyltetrahydrofolate (methylTHF) in the
    liver; 2) a reduction in plasma folate levels, and 3) an increased rate of
    in vivo histidine oxidation. These phenomena represent a complete reversal
    of what is observed in vitamin B12 deficiency and is currently known as the
    "methyl trap" theory. In this condition, methionine synthetase activity is
    inhibited and, as a result, there is increased methyl THF, elevated plasma
    folate levels, and impaired histidine oxidation.

    We are calling the
    altered folate metabolism due to zinc deficiency a "reverse methyl trap"
    and hypothesize that the activity of methionine synthetase is, as in the
    "classical "methyl trap", the factor primarily responsible for establishing
    the steady-state distribution of the various folate coenzymes and for
    increasing the rate of methyltetrahydrofolate turnover in tissues. We
    postulate, furthermore, that the increased methionine synthetase activity
    in zinc deficiency is due either to decreased levels of methionine (or
    S-adenosylmethionine), or to changes in endocrine function secondary to
    zinc deficiency."

    I also wonder anyone knows if the proposed study was ever completed?


    The reason I ask is that it's possible that I may have a copper toxicity issue (on top of the mercury problem), but that's in the process of being confirmed. However, I DO know that I have a distinct zinc deficiency, and am trying to increase levels, but experience worsening symptoms (more anemic, more tingling, neuropathy) whenever I take even small amounts. The last week or so I'm trying to eat more high-zinc foods, even managed to eat some - smoked oysters - without gagging too much. The low zinc does help to explain the weight loss, which continues, (and of course it could also be due to the b12/folate deficiency).

    Any comments and interpretation would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,

    Dan
  2. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Seattle
    Followup...

    Also, I was wondering if increasing methylation supps like methylb12, hydroxb12 and/or methylfolate or folinic acid might cause 'dumping' of excess copper, as it is suggested to do with mercury and other heavy metals?

    And also, if it's possible that excess copper may be contributing to the excitoxicity that we see in certain subsets -- after starting the methylation protocol -- or even before doing so?

    THANK YOU.

    d.
  3. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    Interesting. Looks like this abstract is 20 years old...from 1987.
  4. Vegas

    Vegas Senior Member

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    Virginia
    Zinc is an essential component in this biochemical process, and something that RVK should consider as part of his protocol. I've experienced similar symptoms upon taking zinc; this is possibly related to the displacement of copper and mercury. I believe only the very (Cu, Hg) toxic experience these symptoms. If they occur 15-45 mins after you take the zinc, I suspect that is what is happening with you. I'm not sure how good an idea shellfish is for your source of zinc. Try spreading out 5 mg doses of zinc throughout the day, and only take with meals to slow absorption. Judging from your admitted high copper and mercury, you are probably low in molybdenum as well.

    Actually, your liver is probably ridiculously overloaded with mercury and copper. After months of generous moly and zinc supplementation + 40 round of DMSA, it seems mine is coming back on line in a big way. You sound like a textbook case for heavy metal poisoning. It's time to chelate starting with very low doses of DMSA.
  5. aprilk1869

    aprilk1869 Senior Member

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    Scotland, UK
    Oysters are also high in copper which somewhat negates the benefits of the zinc.
  6. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Yes, thank you April. I had a TERRIBLE afternoon/evening yesterday...after my 6th day of oysters w/lunch...became incredibly uncomfortable, extremely anxious and weak, w/some tremors...all the classic copper symptoms, so did some more research today and found out that Ann Gittleman, who recovered from copper toxicity, says to AVOID oysters, even though the zinc copper ratio is like 20/1...there's still too much copper for someone overloaded.

    Argh.
  7. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    Seattle
    Hi Vegas,

    Sorry for the LATE reply -- I don't know why I didn't see your reply until now. I hope you see this. I just sent you a PM, but then got a window saying I wasn't logged in! Anyway, I was wondering if you could talk about your experience in more detail. How did you know you had copper toxicity? And what kind of side effects did you have? I did do the Cutler protocol for a bit back in 2009, when I was doing a lot better and taking "life" for granted, but was using ALA, which if memory serves me, can raise copper levels. Weird, because I felt okay on it, but since then was prescribed copper a few times. And copper/zinc.

    Anyway, would love to hear more details.

    Thanks.

    Dan

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