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In Brief: Muscles and the 'myalgia' in ME/CFS
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Revised Simplified Methylation Protocol (August 25, 2012 Revision)

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by richvank, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi jimmy86,

    I started taking higher dose s-acetyl glutathione 2 weeks ago and it's been a big help. Last week, I even went to a 5 day Vajrayana retreat, commuting 40 minutes each way and not getting much sleep. At the end of the retreat, I ran out of s-acetyl glutathione and crashed hard. After 2 days, I dragged myself over to a friend's and got some more SAG. To my amazement, I came out of the crash in about 15 minutes and was able to go directly to a family birthday party.

    Currently, I'm taking 1200 - 2700 mg. of SAG, or 1.5 - 2.7 grams per day. Usually I take 1500 grams in the morning, and take more if I have an infection, take in something toxic, exercise, or have a lot of stress. I also take a lot of minerals to support methylation and glutathione production. To save money, I decided to try buying directly from the manufacturer that makes most of the brand name SAG that you see on the market. It's a lot cheaper that way, and the powder is 99.3% pure.

    My expectation is that taking higher doses of SAG will work well for most people, but not for all. Two of my friends can only tolerate small amounts, and both of them have severe gut problems. According to Chris Shade, inflammation in the small intestine causes phase II detox to get backed up in the liver, which is where glutathione does its thing. So it may be important to clear the gut of mercury, parasites, enteroviruses or SIBOs first so that bile can drain toxins out of the liver.
    jimmy86, Blue and helen1 like this.
  2. jimmy86

    jimmy86

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    Hi Mimi,
    great to hear that it works so well for you. I get my glutathione levels checked this week and then I will start. I am moving to the US soon for some time (to the bay area as well) so I might get back to you about the SAG you take. Did you monitor your glutathione levels?
  3. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi Jimmy,

    Glad to hear you are moving to the area. We have a very active email support group and monthly meetings. It's called BACFS. Let me know if you want to get on the list.

    I didn't do any monitoring, I just experimented to see how it affected me. My first impression was wonderful: brain fog gone, mood lifted and more energy. This effect continues to hold. And yes, I would be happy to sell you some SAG and pass the savings I get on to you.

    Mimi
  4. Brent

    Brent

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    Mimi,

    what would your recommendation be for a SAG product if I want to try it? I'm not planning in buying it bulk yet... Just want to see how I react..

    thanks.
  5. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi Brent,

    It comes in 300 mg. capsules from the Maplewood Pharmacy. That brand has the best price of encapsulated SAG. I buy it from Nature Doc (www.naturedoc.com). It's also listed as acetyl glutathione but it is exactly the same product.

    From what I've seen with my friends, if you have severe gut inflammation, you may get a die-off reaction that makes you spacey and tired. In which case, start with half a cap or less. Otherwise, you can take a capsule or more. I take all of my SAG in the morning (about 1 gram) and BH4 in the morning and early afternoon. Both give me energy and both quench free radicals. Glutathione also detoxifies heavy metals and is involved in killing viruses. For support, you can bathe in sea salt, swim in the ocean, or whatever else helps you excrete dead pathogens.

    Mimi
  6. Brent

    Brent

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    Thanks MiMi, no real gut issues just depleted glutathione... Interested to see how I react to this.. Hopefully it's positive, because I'm getting nowhere w/ methylfolate/methlyb12.

    Thanks again!
  7. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Glad to hear it, Brent. I have taken up to two and a half grams without any problems. I take more when I am stressed. The only reason I take so little now is that BH4 is such a good help. In fact, I just returned from a week long scouting expedition for moving to a new home, driving 8 hours each way. It really felt good to be out in the country as well.

    Mimi
  8. Brent

    Brent

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    I remember reading a story where someone tried it and it induced such a detox effect that it severely poisoned them... Im not so much worried about that happening to me. I'm sure i have some toxins, but im not bed ridden with fatigue..

    Did give you a detox effect at all upon first trying it?
  9. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Kind of the opposite. I was doing DMSA to get rid of mercury, as well as the simplified methylation protocol. So I was in the midst of detoxing, with a lot of brain fog and a certain amount of darkness, and when I took the SAG, 600 mg initially, my brain fog cleared and I noticed it was a beautiful day.
  10. Brent

    Brent

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    Interesting because I get no response from methyfolate/b12 and I mthfr c677 and a12.. they do give me a lil bit of a headache and some brain fog.. idk if thats detox or... what.. but I'm planning to add SAG into the mix to see if it can mix things up a bit..
  11. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Good, let me know how it goes. I'm always interested to see how people benefit. And with c677 and a1298 you might also want to look into BH4. Yasko has a good lecture on it on YouTube or Vimeo. Search Yasko BH4
  12. Brent

    Brent

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  13. jimmy86

    jimmy86

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    I am taking 1.2 g since a week, and I feel definitely clearer in my mind. Not sure yet about overall energy levels, I will keep you updated...
    Brent likes this.
  14. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi Jimmy,

    Glad to hear it. A friend of mine who has had ME/CFS for 50 years had a really good boost from it, after an initial period of what he figures was detoxification. He felt crummy, and then he ran around doing errands for 10 days. He doesn't suffer much from brain fog, like I did, but it definitely helps me in that department as well. I also take idebenone @around 300 mg. to regenerate nerve cells. Idebenone has been proven to stimulate nerve growth factor, especially when you take it with fat.

    Mimi
  15. Mimi

    Mimi Senior Member

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    Hi Brent,

    If you look a little deeper at Yasko and elsewhere, I think you might find that those mutations impact BH4 production. Second, Yasko says we all need BH4 because aluminum, which blocks production, is so prevalent in our diet and drugs.

    Mimi
  16. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Hi Lotus

    I think you might have explained why I am having quite bad overstimulation into the end of my 3rd week of adding in 3000 mcg Transdermal B12 and also this week 1000 mcg MB12 plus around 800 mcg mixed folates from supplements. The B12 spray gave me a great increase in energy which I needed and I now have permanent energy in my legs something I haven't had for over 13 years. BUT ... my sleep has been terrible, lucky to get 4 hours and the migraines are getting worse. I feel over the top stimulated.

    In addition to the supplements I take I also eat a green salad every day for years now plus virtually everyday I eat broccoli and cauliflower which would give me even more folate. Perhaps it is likely I only need about 1000 mcg of the B12 spray for energy and that I shouldn't take anymore Methylfolate than what is in the 3 Basic Nutrients I take daily because I am getting so much folate from my food.

    Not sure how I would know whether my body needed any extra MB12 or whether it gets sufficient from my food and also converts the B12 spray ok?

    Thanks
    Pam
  17. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    [quote="`
    As for the difference between hydroxocobalamin and methylcobalamin, methylcobalamin is what's needed for methylation. Rich recommends starting with hydroxocobalamin because most people can convert it into an adequate amount of methylcobalamin (and adenosylcobalamin). In the first post of the thread, Rich explains in more detail why he recommends starting with hydroxocobalamin and also gives instructions on switching to methylcobalamin if necessary.[/quote]


    I can definitely convert Cynacobalamin to Adenosylcobalamin but cannot convert Methylcobalamin to Adenosylcobalamin. However how do I know if I convert the Cynacobalamin Transdermal Spray to Methylcoblamin? There is a small amount anyway in the 3 Thornes Basic Nutrients I have been taking since 2007 but its only 225 mcg of AdB12 and MB12. My gut feeling is that actually I don't need anymore MB12 cos I just felt so well on just the TD spray without anything extra.

    Pam
  18. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Salt Lake City

    I can definitely convert Cynacobalamin to Adenosylcobalamin but cannot convert Methylcobalamin to Adenosylcobalamin. However how do I know if I convert the Cynacobalamin Transdermal Spray to Methylcoblamin? There is a small amount anyway in the 3 Thornes Basic Nutrients I have been taking since 2007 but its only 225 mcg of AdB12 and MB12. My gut feeling is that actually I don't need anymore MB12 cos I just felt so well on just the TD spray without anything extra.

    Pam[/quote]

    Hi Pam,

    I can definitely convert Cynacobalamin to Adenosylcobalamin but cannot convert Methylcobalamin to Adenosylcobalamin.

    As according to all the reading I have done, ALL the other cobalamins are derived via MeCbl from the correct enzyme and ATP, and have seen the pathway to AdoCbl via MeCbl detailed, and direct conversion from CyCbl was said not to happen; except HyCbl which can come from photolytic breakdown of MeCbl, AdoCbl and CyCbl at least. AdoCbl can be directly absorbed sublingually. So all in I don't know what that might mean or how it might happen.
  19. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Thanks Freddd I am wondering if in fact the TD spray contains Hydroxy B12? I am going to order AdnB12 lozenges today as not too happy to have the cyanide bit knowing I have been mercury poisoned in the past.

    Pm
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Salt Lake City
    Hi pam,

    The Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex is a capsule out of which a small amount can be dumped to use as a very bland sublingual and it works far better that way. If it is exposed to light I bet it does. Analysis of 1950s era CyCbl vials showed that it was as much 35% HyCbl. If they can stabilize it I don't know how.

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