Reverse T3 hormones (RT3)

[Ema]

2) I dont know where to start....I'm in the UK where the curent paradigm with low females hormones is grin and bear it. I know I can relatively easily get progestrone cream - if I take that, will it make the oestrogen deficit worse? Does your LLMD have a view on sex hormones and chronic bacterial infection?

I've never actually talked about sex hormones with my LLMD but she's on board because she writes the prescriptions!

I would be hesitant to start progesterone cream without estrogen as well as you could easily start to become progesterone dominant. Most people are more familiar with estrogen dominance but the reverse is also possible and equally undesirable.

As far as UK options, I have a friend who gets a product called Hormonin on the NHS which is very similar to Tri-Est here in the USA. Other options would be to order from overseas (Inhousepharmacy.biz is one idea). They stock everything from Premarin to Progynova and estrogen patches as well. It often takes a bit of trial and error to figure out the best regimen but with your levels, quite honestly, I would think anything would be better than nothing! Alternatively, there is a low dose estrogen cream called Bi-Estro available OTC from iHerb.com. You would have to use a ton of cream to get a reasonable dose, but it is certainly a workable option.

Here is a website that discusses HRT options and there is a section devoted to UK products (it's equally valid for women in perimenopause as well as early menopause so don't be offended by the title!):

http://www.earlymenopause.com/ukhrt.htm

Estrogen is usually replaced for either the entire cycle or can be paused during menstruation. I take it every day.

Progesterone is pretty easy to come by in the UK as you mentioned. I personally like to cycle the dose to try to mimic the natural cycle but there are many ways to dose it. I use a 30 mg of the transdermal cream from days 11-21 and then 60-90 mg of cream from days 22-28 (or whenever menses begin). Doses are obviously higher if using the oral form as some is lost in the first pass through the liver.

If you take a look at the links and find some products that you think might work for you, feel free to reply if you'd like my opinion...some days I feel like I've tried them all before settling on a regime that seems to be working (knock wood!).

 

[sianrecovery]

brillant Ema, will look and get back to you. I also looked at the thyroid webdsites you posted and found them very helpful - and a useful counterpoint to the messianic emphasis on T3 I am reading elsewhere. Thanks again, it really means a lot to me to have your experience on this xxxx

 

[sianrecovery]

One of my prac's has suggested if I do a short course of pure T3 I could find out if thyroid was an issue full shop, before looking at what to take long term - any thoughts anyone?

 

[Ema]

T3 is like the roof of the house...it will fall without having a good foundation (adrenals) and walls (iron levels).

It would be easy to assess your thyroid levels with some labs particularly FT3 and FT4 as well as RT3 if possible (though I know it is more difficult in the UK). And then make some decisions about whether or not to start with T3 or a T4/T3 combo product.

My concern is that a short course of T3 only would fail because the adrenals weren't fully supported and iron levels weren't high enough to tolerate the T3. Then if you experienced adverse symptoms because of this, it might be possible to falsely conclude that thyroid and/or T3 was the problem when in fact it was because the foundation and walls were not yet in place.

 

[garcia]

My concern is that a short course of T3 only would fail because the adrenals weren't fully supported and iron levels weren't high enough to tolerate the T3. Then if you experienced adverse symptoms because of this, it might be possible to falsely conclude that thyroid and/or T3 was the problem when in fact it was because the foundation and walls were not yet in place.

Hi Ema, what kind of adverse symptoms might one get with T3 if say iron was low?

I ask because have low iron levels but I can't do anything about it since I have a H. Pylori infection which feeds off any iron I take.
Many thanks!

 

[Ema]

Usually intolerance symptoms look a lot like hyperthyroid symptoms but without the high BP/pulse/temp. One will usually get a higher than expected for the T3 dose result on a FT3 lab as well.

Typical symptoms could include sweating/heat intolerance, tremor/fine shaking, nervousness agitation, fatigue, decreased concentration etc.

Was your infection not responsive to typical antibiotics?

It is a difficult balancing act for sure. On the one hand, one certainly does not want to feed the bugs, but on the other hand, good thyroid levels are helpful for eradicating the infections once and for all.

 

[garcia]

Thanks a lot for the response Ema.

No sadly my infection is resistant to antibiotics. I definitely agree that good thyroid function is key to keeping infections under control. Getting there is the difficult bit (at least for me).

 

[Mij]

Have you tried Bovine Latoferrin for H.pylori? My doctor treated me with abxs for this infection and rec's lactoferrin for his patients that are resistant or can not tolerate abxs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16611285

btw I had/have low iron(ferritin) levels but never experienced problems taking T3 in the past.

 

[Ema]

Have you tried Bovine Latoferrin for H.pylori? My doctor treated me with abxs for this infection and rec's lactoferrin for his patients that are resistant or can not tolerate abxs.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16611285

btw I had/have low iron(ferritin) levels but never experienced problems taking T3 in the past.

I agree, lactoferrin might be useful though I have read articles that H pylori can also strip iron from lactoferrin so it is worth doing some research.

I would also think about doing a trial of T3 if your adrenals are strong and your thyroid labs are low. If you start very slowly, you might be able to do a stairstep sort of dance where you are able to get your iron to naturally come up as your thyroid levels improve without doing much supplementation.

FWIW, it seems serum iron levels and %sat may be more informative than ferritin alone to determine adequate iron status for treatment with T3. Ferritin can be falsely high or low due to inflammation which many of us have.

 

[Mij]

Thanks Ema, I've had low ferritin levels for over 12yrs and I've come to the conclusion that it's due to malabsorption. I probably have inflammation of some sort too.

Weird, I seem to recall my doctor telling me that lactoferrin would help INCREASE iron. But that was many years ago.

 

[garcia]

Thanks for the responses guys.
There are 2 types of lactoferrin, holo-lactoferrin which contains iron, and apolactoferrin which contains no iron and is a potent binder of iron. Almost all the stuff sold as supplements is apolactoferrin. I've tried both forms of lactoferrin. The apolactoferrin lowers my iron even further and makes me severely hypothyroid to the point that I feel cretinous. The holo-lactoferrin just feeds the h. pylori.

All this started when I noticed my ferretin levels had been falling over the last couple of years until I was below range. My gp put me on iron tablets, which initially made me feel fantastic. My brain felt alive. But then I developed a stomach ulcer (never had one before) which I believe was due to the iron feeding a latent helicobacter infection. I can't tolerate any form of iron now, just makes me feel sick. I had long suspected a helicobacter infection due to severe GI issues, but an equivocal test result put me off pursuing it any further.

Mij, its good to know you had low ferritin, but never experienced problems taking T3.

I would also think about doing a trial of T3 if your adrenals are strong and your thyroid labs are low. If you start very slowly, you might be able to do a stairstep sort of dance where you are able to get your iron to naturally come up as your thyroid levels improve without doing much supplementation.

Problem is my adrenals are fried. Also I can't tolerate steroids or any kind of adrenal support (natural or artificial).

FWIW, it seems serum iron levels and %sat may be more informative than ferritin alone to determine adequate iron status for treatment with T3.

ok that is good to know.

Ferritin can be falsely high or low due to inflammation which many of us have.

Yes I definitely have inflammation in abundance!

 

[Mij]

Garcia, what about an iron injection? My doc mentioned that he gives this to his geriartic patients, only thing is that it leaves a black mark on your skin. You are really caught between a rock and a hard place with this thing.

 

[heapsreal]

dessicated liver tablets are a good source of iron and b12. the old time bodybuilders used these to increase energy and endurance