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Reverse Mitochondrial Damage 101

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Radio, Feb 11, 2014.

  1. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Impossible?
    Fortunately there is hope...Read my story...http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs-part-2.28684/
  2. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    Yes, your mitochondrial defect was not too far gone luckily, but there's alot of text for my energy to read your whole story now, but I will have a look when I can. You seem to have researched alot until you found what works for you and one issue is there I wonder if you know of:

    Overmethylators like myself, is Betaine HCL suitable? Couldn't find an answer nowhere but probably it is because TMG is not and Betaine HCL has Betaine, so I would have to depend on zinc to increase my stomach acid, right? I don't want to drink pure HCL, that would be a bad idea^^

    Look on GH (for most too expensive)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2243230/

    and EPO (also expensive but promising)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20395592
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21597884

    also Thyroid hormone
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12552316
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18279015
    Radio likes this.
  3. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Radio: (Warning COM +/+ mutation), HCL Betaine is a methyl donor.


    Thanks for the links. Yes, zinc is needed big time, thyroid is a factor in Hypochlorhydria as well. We also need to identify and treat H-pylori and gastritis first, before we can implement HCL therapy. COMT +/+ could benefit from bitters, enzymes and other beneficial natural strategies.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
    amaru7 likes this.
  4. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Heaps,

    the full picture is complex and impossible to answer definitely without research.

    The first thing to understand is that Cholesterol is made mainly within the liver only 25% or less comes from diet.

    ALCAR directly assists the burning of lipids as fuel.

    The next is that 'bad' cholesterol is good stuff (yep I know sounds daft) its needed to make all steroid hormones. These include Testosterone (often in short supply) to make Aldosterone (daytime anti-urine hormone often in short supply) and Cortisol (often in short supply). Each of these active hormones is controlled by releasing hormones to cause it's production. Those releasing hormones can stimulate large amounts of 'bad' cholesterol production because the active hormones are made from it. Until your hypothalamus becomes dead in the water your glands lacking energy, and producing too little active hormone, would cause excessive releasing hormones and thus cholesterol. This had not been researched.

    Second cholesterol is used to produce cells walls and for many other functions. The role of lack of growth hormone and lack of general activity may well cause under-use of

    Finally ALCAR assist energy production in multiple ways including: direct protection of Aerobic energy production, protection of CoQ10, improved production of many of the 'substrates' of energy production; protection of Methylation that in turn improves re-generation of Mitochondria.

    regards,

    Leo
    heapsreal and Radio like this.
  5. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    Consider PQQ (not mega expensive) or periodic carb fasting (free), both support Mito renewal.
  6. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Carbohydrate fasting not recommend when you have mitochondria disease, we need glycogen supportive foods to fuel the damage mito and to compensate for the glycogen storage issue. Also, there are hypoglycemic subgroups to contemplate. I know there is a good amount of research on mitochondria and fasting. Regretfully, this is not a good idea when you are dealing with a progressive mitochondria disease.

    Radio Note:
    I do like Life Extension Super Ubiquniol Coq10 With BioPQQ. :thumbsup:


    Life Extension Super Ubiquniol Coq10 With BioPQQ

    http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Super-Ubiquinol-CoQ10-with-BioQQ-100-mg-30-Softgels/50706#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=Extension Super Ubiquniol Coq10 With BioPQQ&rc=7&sr=null&ic=1
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  7. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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  8. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    Thats sad, that I cannot use my Betaine HCL, already bought half a pound of that stuff ;(
    Well I'll try with zinc and iodine then, hope I can reach a near as good as hcl pH
  9. Aerose91

    Aerose91 Senior Member

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    Can't ascorbic acid and Apple cider vinegar also be used to aid in digestion before meals?
  10. tdog333

    tdog333 Senior Member

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    That doesn't mean you can't use betaine HCL, you just need to watch for a response. I have double COMT's and MTHFR MTR MTRR all +/+ and I take 15+ betaine tablets a day. But I do start to notice a bit of anxiety once I pass that number. It's gonna be different for everyone, just because you have a homozygous mutation doesn't mean your body hasn't found an alternative pathway. If it gets bad you can use niacin to soak some methyl groups and use up your SAMe

    Aerose is right about ascorbic acid and ACV as well- just dont use too much water as it will dilute more than it helps
    Radio and amaru7 like this.
  11. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

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    Great news, there is nothing better than betaine HCL for stomach acid. Ascorbic Acid doesn't even come close as it's less acidic than the stomach acid itself.
  12. Radio

    Radio *****

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    I am working on a new Mitochondria Recovery Protocol I will be posting soon...:thumbsup:
    tdog333 likes this.
  13. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Can't wait to see that Radio!
  14. Sporty

    Sporty

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    Hi, I'm 8 weeks into my mitochondria supplement regime now and after what I thought was an initial step up I'm now back to struggling a bit more again. Is there any time frames with this? How long does one continue on the sups before knowing one way or the other if it's working or going to work? Cheers si
  15. Radio

    Radio *****

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    You could look into IV lipid replacement (The Patricia Kane protocol) The oral PC therapy may not be in high enough dosage for you to absorb into your system. See more here http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...reatment-the-pk-patricia-kane-protocol.29249/

    Also, we need to look at all contributing factors.

    We need mitochondria support that's a fact. But, there is a catch 22 at play here. The main focus is to treat and control the dysbiosis imbalances as well as fuel and support the mitochondria without generating more metabolic waste. We need carbohydrate to help drive and fuel mitochondria function without triggering a inflammatory (Mast-cell) response. This is why diet is one of the key factors in recovery. I'm working on posting more threads to help forum members better understand the root cause of these imbalances.

    The main goal is to preventing Apoptosis cell death and it's imperative that we start mitochondria supportive therapy at the on set of CFS/ME.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2014
  16. Sporty

    Sporty

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    Hi,

    Thanks for your reply.

    Blimey Radio, slow down! Lol bit complicated for a novice like me :0)

    What's, PC therapy?

    Yes I've had a stool test and I have gut issues. Low stomach acid, low good bacteria etc. foul wind if I have more than a little sugar. I was told to keep off the simple carbs.

    As for the mito therapy....I'm taking L-Carnatite, D-Ribose, vit c, multi vits and mins, Co Q 10,B 12 and Mag injections. Does that cover things? :0)

    Cheers
    Si
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Note: The Nutricology NT Factor EnergyLipids Powder tub contains 150 grams in total.

    The plastic scoop that comes with the tub holds 1.4 grams, for a level amount (ie, not heaped).

    Therefore if you take 4 such scoops each day, this tub will last you 27 days.

    If you take 2 scoops a day, this tub will last you 54 days.



    PureFormulas sell this product for $44.

    The US Amazon price for this product seems to be cheap, at around $47.

    iHerb are charging $70.

    Those in the UK can order from iHerb, at a total cost of £43, including DHL 2-4 day courier international shipping. But of course 20% VAT tax will be charged by the courier, increasing the total cost to around £52.


    If you are buying the UK, there are some ludicrously high prices, with one Amazon UK seller charging £117 for this same tub.

    However, other sellers on Amazon UK are charging £75.
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2014
  18. Radio

    Radio *****

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    What's, PC therapy?

    This kind of therapy helps rebuild the damage phospholipids and other lipids that make up cellular mitochondrial membranes. The Mitochondria can becomes damaged and leaky from an overload of metabolic waste. By repairing these membranes we allow our cells to increase their nutrient uptake so that the mitochondria can product more ATP. I will be posting my new updated Mitochondria protocol soon.

    I am working on build a solid theory to the root cause of this syndrome. We need to address the underline cause before we can develop protocols that will be beneficial to long term wellness.
    Sporty likes this.
  19. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Hip, Thank you for providing this great detailed information on NT Factor lipid support. :thumbsup:
  20. Sporty

    Sporty

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    Radio, if I give you my currant supplement/medication regime could you possibly suggest if I am missing something to my regime....?


    quote="Radio, post: 446955, member: 12704"]What's, PC therapy?

    This kind of therapy helps rebuild the damage phospholipids and other lipids that make up cellular mitochondrial membranes. The Mitochondria can becomes damaged and leaky from an overload of metabolic waste. By repairing these membranes we allow our cells to increase their nutrient uptake so that the mitochondria can product more ATP. I will be posting my new updated Mitochondria protocol soon.

    I am working on build a solid theory to the root cause of this syndrome. We need to address the underline cause before we can develop protocols that will be beneficial to long term wellness.[/quote]

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