Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Revealing enterovirus infection in chronic human disorders: An integrated diagnostic approach

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by halcyon, Nov 12, 2017.

  1. halcyon

    halcyon Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,345
    Likes:
    5,491
    Revealing enterovirus infection in chronic human disorders: An integrated diagnostic approach
    Interesting study with implications for future ME pathogen research. These are the sorts of methods that need to be attempted going forward I believe if researchers insist on using blood instead of tissues for pathogen detection in ME.

    @Janet Dafoe (Rose49) I hope you can share this study with Ron as it has several important notes regarding difficulties with detection and identification of enteroviruses in chronic disease.

     
    bspg, anciendaze, Diwi9 and 6 others like this.
  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,291
    Likes:
    757
  3. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes:
    4,737
    This is very interesting, but I fear we will be going through another cycle in which these procedures will be attacked for producing false positives, when molecular biology does not support clinical diagnosis. An example of that took place with culture tests for borrelia burghdorferi. We still don't have a gold-standard test for that infection.

    If doctors don't want to see a chronic infection they will not, unless the patient is close to dying.

    It is possible this will be different, due to the results on type-1 diabetes, for which there is little diagnostic uncertainty. Could we finally be on the path to prevention?
     
    pattismith likes this.
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,370
    Likes:
    16,793
    There are always going to be some skeptical opinions until the matter is decided beyond all doubt, but were are fortunate that chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections are associated with a number of diseases, as the following paragraphs from the paper indicate:
    They don't mention ME/CFS, but of course that too is linked to chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections. And chronic enterovirus is linked to Crohn's disease.

    Thus because several diseases are associated with chronic non-cytolytic enteroviruses, the clinical significance of these infections is quite high, and hopefully that fact will spur on research faster than if there were only one disease involved.
     
    Jesse2233 and bspg like this.
  5. bel canto

    bel canto Senior Member

    Messages:
    240
    Likes:
    466
    Might be interesting to see how many people here had family members with one of those disorders noted above. I had a parent with post-polio syndrome. Subclinical doesn't necessarily mean non-transmissible, I think.
     
  6. anciendaze

    anciendaze Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,835
    Likes:
    4,737
    @Hip

    My comment above was meant to refer to diagnostic ambiguity for several of the listed illnesses: post-polio syndrome, myasthenia gravis, autoimmune thyroiditis and chronic viral cardiomyopathy. In practice, there are large gray areas, not black and white distinctions. You can easily find doctors who consider "chronic viral cardiomyopathy" an oxymoron. They expect viral cardiomyopathy to be rapidly life-threatening as in the well-know case of singer Randy Travis.

    There is much less ambiguity about type-1 diabetes (T1D), and one would hope this will spur general research into chronic enterovirus infections.

    Incidentally, there is evidence treating T1D does not stop the pathological process. This is probably because cytotoxic T-cells remain activated and continue to kill islet cells. We need to stop the underlying enterovirus infection, and that is a problem if you can't even detect virions in the blood.

    This relates to two other papers I've mentioned: one on the role of cytotoxic T-cells in inflammatory bowel diseases and diabetes, and another on persistence of immune cells with defective viral infections. If, as I'm thinking, this method works when others do not because these enteroviruses are defective, specific detection will be more difficult because not all such viruses are defective in the same way.

    Current methods of reducing autoimmune activity are like taking a hammer to the problem. We need to find and treat the specific subset of immune cells with persistent infections, not stop or damage most immune activity.
     
    halcyon, frederic83, Hip and 2 others like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page