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Rethinking Probiotics.

Discussion in 'Mast Cell Disorders/Mastocytosis' started by Ema, Aug 8, 2013.

  1. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member

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    I will try to read this later on histamine, it is too long for just now.

    I had success resolving bloating with probiotics by reducing the dose.

    But I'm very interesting in the histamine angle and will try to look later.
     
  2. manna

    manna Senior Member

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    i'll just paste a post from another forum. might be relevant, might not. :

    bumped into a few ideas touching on some points made about aerobic fermentation creating an overabundance of acids and so being potentially unhealthy. some think that kefir or yoghurt, or other aerobically fermented foods, don't actually re-populate your gut at all, in one instance, because the microbes grown in our gut grow in an "anaerobic" environment--which is no, or very little, oxygen.

    seems there's a current debate "raging" about this in american health circles and many seem to agree that fermentation should not be aerobic. there are a plethora of devices and airlocks (water bubble trap for lettibg co2 out but no air in), for fermenting now being sold

    check out pickl it jars etc if you haven't, here...plus some good info on kefir http://gnowfglins.com/2012/11/14/fer...pickl-it-jars/



    fermentation in the past, was generally without oxygen, just like the gut, but its been changed into aerobic. these aerobic microbes cannot adhere to the gut wall, or even multiply in your colon. on the other hand, fermentation in a similar environment to the gut might (some claim it does) create similar microbes. a little heat and oxygen means ferments can degrade quickly to lactic acid. doing it with a secure lid and a co2 bubble releaser means it's chances of creating acids is greatly reduced as no new oxygen gets in past the bubble trap.

    the old tradition of "hanging" meat to improve digestability and taste, used to be done by pushing the animals tongue down its throat before hanging it. as it "hangs" in the air, this tongue pulls back to create a vacuum inside the anima,l so it ages in an airfree enevironment. i read in one of randolph stones books on polarity theray, of a report in early 20th century france, where there was a fad for yoghurt boothes (20's i think), until the people starting getting arthritic conditions arising from its use.

    on one page about fermenting one method was to pour 1 cm of oil above the sour kraut so the bubbles can escape but no air is available to degrade with. you can by "kraut tops" too, which are designed to screw on to your jar to allow anaerobic instead of aerobic fermentation. the inuit used to bury some of the fish they caught, sometimes for up to a year, basically in a dark (underground), air minimal environment.

    good link too> The 3 Biggest Fermenting Mistakes You’re Already Making?
    http://www.foodrenegade.com/3-bigges...lready-making/

    keep check for signs of acidity, like twitching or cramping/pain in the calf musclles etc, if you ferment your food.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2014
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  3. David mepoisontheory

    David mepoisontheory

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    This is interesting about probiotics, because I've been looking at natural gut bacteria and their production of biogenic amines as a possible cause of ME/CFS. The body's own enzyme defences against biogenic amines need to be reduced or poisoned in some way for this theory to work.
    The use of probiotics which actually make these amine oxidase enzymes could thus be beneficial. But if the probiotic produces too many biogenic amines symptoms would worsen.
    Anyway, here's the basic idea:
    [​IMG]
    More information at: mepoisontheory.wordpress.com
     
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  4. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    Would this ultimately lead to over production of cortisol?
     
  5. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    What's everyone's opinion on Prescript-Assist? Chris Kresser recommends it, and it seems to be one of the only probiotics universally recommended.

    I know KDM recommends mutaflor, but I'm having a hard time finding it in the states.
     
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    I've been alternating PrescriptAssist w/ 2 others....opinions? not really:rolleyes:Body seems to like it. I did the suggested 1 month course before switching to 1-2/week. Nice photo @drob31 :)
     
  7. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    I don't know if this has already been brought to attention here.

    I was reading this article linked from another thread and found this:

     
  8. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    It seems like we would want to eliminate anything that induced TNF-a and IL1B/IL6, no?
     
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    That's what I'm trying to find out :wide-eyed:
     
  10. kel88

    kel88 Senior Member

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    I only read the first paige i did order optibac for daily immunity. Should that be a good one? It cointains the b longum and b infantis.

    I would like to take natures way probifia pearls but everywhere i look they are out of stock :(
     
  11. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Nope, sorry.
     
  13. kel88

    kel88 Senior Member

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    Ahmo i found that one to but i would try only bifido bacteria no lactobacil and i would try with the b. Infantis... And that does yours not included :(

    I wrote iherb a message but they could not tell me when it will be back in stock :(
    So i hope i can handle the one that i orderd... I hope it lowers my histaminica reactions :(
     
  14. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    @kel88 have you ever looked into VSL3, or mutaflor (if in Germany)? There's also something called prescript-assist.

    I'm experimenting with VSL3 now.
     
  15. kel88

    kel88 Senior Member

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    @drob31 uhhh Germany? Ho ho... In from holland , not German hihihi :)

    I tryed mutaflor but it wasnt really working for me! VSL i read about it but didnt buy it! Ive got really bad cowmilk allergie ant this contain cowmilk :( so thats why i didnt buy it!
    Did you try it?

    I found something what is maybe also intressting!

    Bodyecologie.com

    Digestive multi also real improvment with candida overgrow!
    Anybody who tryed it?
     
  16. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Are there any probiotics out there containing A2 dairy strains?
     
  17. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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  18. Peyt

    Peyt Senior Member

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    It's interesting that list does not have "Prescript-Assist" which is the only one that has worked for my SIBO
     
  19. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    It is only mentioned before the list

    Edit: I tried the HO 2 yrs ago (they mentioned as a favorite along with prescrip assist) and it did absolutely nothing for me
     
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  20. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

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    I've tried prescript-assist and VSL#3. I want to try mutaflor, but have to travel to Canada to do so as it's not sold in the US.
     

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