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Research at Kings College Hospital, London

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Spinney Lainey, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    Just wanted to let you know, I'm taking part in some research at King's and I was really impressed with the research staff. I was also very happy to find out they have nothing to do with Dr Charles Wessely! They are a separate organisation, who got funding for CFS research. I've attached a list of the current research projects and I'm taking part in the immune system one.

    @Persimmon - you may be interested in this.

    Attached Files:

    Esther12 likes this.
  2. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    After looking at the current research projects of the CFS unit, it looks like more of the same to me. Trying to find fault in patients, treating them with CBT.
    Min and Valentijn like this.
  3. Bob

    Bob

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    Thanks for sharing the info, Spinney.

    Edited. (please see my posts, below for reason.)
    The specific research team that you are involved with may not have direct contact with Simon Wessely, but the Kings College fatigue team are heavily influenced by Simon Wessely and his colleagues.

    Kings College is heavily influenced by Simon Wessely and his colleagues. Professor Trudie Chalder is the head of the fatigue service. The fatigue unit is a partnership between King's College and the Maudsley Hospital.

    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
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  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info. Good to see and have copies of.

    I would not trust them at all, even if they are good at knowing how to behave in front of patients in a way which gets patients on side.
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  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Study 1 looks okay. Dr Gerome Breen does a lot of research into genetics and mental illness. Doesn't look like he's ever looked at ME/CFS before, so probably not much of a vested interest in making it psychological. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if he parrots the pro-CBT/GET beliefs of his colleagues in describing the disease or in the discussion, simply due to not being aware of how bad their research is.

    Study 2 looks like it will be a quack fest. One of Lauren L Bryan's previous studies (not published yet) was looking at correlations between personality and CFS. The current one is looking for abnormal physical reactions to emotional and psychological stimuli, probably 100% in line with the belief that CFS patients problem is that we over-react to everything and that we imagine our symptoms.

    Study 3 is likely to have a heavy bias in the direction of psychosocial causation of illness. It looks like Alice Russell is investigating immune activation as a possible cause of ME/CFS, but probably in the context of psychosocial stress causing the immune activation. Another reservation about this study is that there isn't a proper "normal" control group. Just CFS patients (referred to as having "chronic fatigue" at one point :rolleyes:) and patients with fatigue following treatment with interferon-alpha. Other publications by the co-author, Alessandra Borsini, seem to equate depression and fatigue with CFS, and heavily push the theory of psychosocial stress being an important part of causing both the reaction to the drug and in CFS.

    The author of Study 4, Andres Herane Vives, is unknown regarding CFS, and has only published in Spanish previously. His supervisors for the project are Dr Anthony Cleare and Andrew Papadopoulus, who have worked with Wessely in many publications. They seem more focused on cortisol theories, but are quite happy with the stress/mood causation conclusions, as well as always advocating CBT/GET as the cure. Lot of stuff about how the problem is illness attributions, deconditioning, etc, with cortisol possibly explaining why some patients don't respond to CBT.

    So Study 1 doesn't sound objectionable and even potentially useful, but I'd avoid the other three like the plague.
    Min and SOC like this.
  6. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    @Valentijn: there are more research projects listed here: http://www.kcl.ac.uk/innovation/groups/projects/cfs/research.aspx


    I also looked briefly at the patient information. They do a good job sugar coating their misanthropic ideology to make it appealing to patients, but it's still the same as always. For example, from the "Physiological aspects of CFS" page

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  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    So that's Study 3? It's a rather primitive pdf - seems to be a low-quality scan which isn't searchable.

    Note some of the things in the document:

    "Institute of Psychiatry"
    "Department of Psychological Medicine"
    Clumsy conflation of 'chronic fatigue syndrome' with 'chronic fatigue'
    questions regarding mood
    "Interview with a psychology/psychiatry trained researcher"
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  8. Bob

    Bob

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    @Spinney Lainey

    If you are involved in study 3, then it looks like it's being carried out by the 'Institute of Psychiatry' which is based at King's College (and it's also associated with the Maudsley.)

    Prof Simon Wessely is the Institutes Vice Dean for 'Academic Psychiatry' and is head of department for 'Psychological Medicine', which happens to be over-seeing Study 3 *:
    http://www.kcl.ac.uk/iop/about/mgmtteam/index.aspx

    * The two contacts for study 3 are within the department for 'Psychological Medicine', which Wessely happens to lead:
    This is the Institute's website:
    http://www.kcl.ac.uk/iop/about/index.aspx

    I would hazard a guess that Wessely is central to moving fatigue research into the Institute of Psychiatry.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
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  9. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    Oh dear, looks like I fell for it!
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  10. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    Ah well, at least I'll be getting some cortisol and immunological data out of it.
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  11. Bob

    Bob

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    For the King's College fatigue department, the only vaguely biomedical study on their list of ongoing fatigue research seems to be this one:
    So that should sort out the biomedical cause of CFS/ME :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
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  12. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Don't blame yourself - they're the ones who are the unethical lying scumbags. I bet we've all been sucked in at one time or another.
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  13. Bob

    Bob

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    It looks like they blatantly lied to you, seeing as Wessely is their direct manager, so it's not your fault.
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  14. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Isn't that Study 2 (from the PDF in the 1st post)? Study 1 is just taking lots of samples.
    Bob likes this.
  15. A.B.

    A.B. Senior Member

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    Unfortunately the data will probably be used to obfuscate the truth. The GET study has already shown that these people have no interest in reality but only in promoting their beliefs.
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  16. Bob

    Bob

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    Ah, yes, thanks. My mistake.
  17. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Nurse Chalder has done nothing to merit her honorary chair.
    She has merely been labelled "professor".
    She is qualified as a nurse. Nothing more.
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  18. Spinney Lainey

    Spinney Lainey Senior Member

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    What I meant was that I will be able to have the data for my own uses (will take it to KDM)
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  19. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Make sure you will be able to get hold of it, before you go ahead then.
    I wouldn't put it past them to loose it, especially if they don't like the results.
    Or to just want to keep it all secret, anyway. :devil:
    Min likes this.
  20. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    Don't let them CBT you. In the CBT-GET combo they favour, the CBT, rather than being therapeutic, is a form of brainwashing, aimed at convincing patients that exercise will not harm them and that they are causing their own disability by avoiding it.
    Min, Valentijn and peggy-sue like this.

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