Lipkin's Monster ME/CFS Study: Microbes, Immunity & Big Data
The Microbe Discovery Project outlines an ambitious new study by top researchers that has collected patient samples, but needs desperately funds to complete the work.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Repairing the HPA axis , - how ...?

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Bansaw, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes:
    206
    My history is that I had some post traumatic stress a while ago and my mind got scattered somewhat. I think maybe that a part of my brain fused or something. At least thats what it felt like. I lived in a high stress part of the world for a couple of years. 
    I often find myself unable to relax fully as I did before.
    I am wondering how to reset my hpa axis.
    I think a good level of my fatigue is because of my inability to reset this part of me.

    I know rest (physical but mostly mental rest) is the main key, but are there supplements that can help with this issue?
    I did try a medication that increased brain blood flow and that seemed to have a positive affect until I got some side-effects concerning my heart rate and was worried enough to stop, but mentally I think I improved.
    So next I tried Huperzine/Vinpocetine and Ginkgo, but that didn't have the same affect.

    Any comments?
     
  2. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,561
    Likes:
    5,454
    Southern California
    @Bansaw - I don't know how to "reset" the hpa axis, or if it's even possible. But for mental relaxation, I would suggest GABA supplements - e.g., l-theanine (which helps the brain produce GABA) Theanine Serene by Source Naturals is a good product, plain GABA may also help. Also niacin sensitizes the GABA receptors and may help in calming your brain. It helped my sleep a lot, together with GABA supplements. And meditation also can be very helpful. There are many different methods of meditation, you can find a ton of information on-line - I liked the book The Relaxation Response by Herbert Benson, it's an old one but very good, and it contains a simple meditation technique.

    Have you had you cortisol levels checked? The Adrenal Stress Index Test is very good, it uses 4 saliva samples taking throughout the day/evening so you can see how your levels rise and fall. If your levels are consistently high, that will create a constant feeling of tension. Relora may help with that.
     
    ebethc, MEMum and Bansaw like this.
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,906
    Likes:
    13,190
    This paper might be of interest:
     
    perrier, MEMum and Bansaw like this.
  4. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,212
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Basically what Mary says. I think checking your adrenals would be a good starting place.
    Here is some info on adrenal fatigue.
    http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/adrenal-info/

    Other than what's already been suggested for supplements I would also suggest magnesium.
     
    Mary likes this.
  5. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,188
    Likes:
    672
    I'd also recommend checking out pregnenelone, and adrenal glandular supplements.
     
  6. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,318
    Likes:
    6,426
    Northcoast NSW, Australia
    Additionally, I had a lot of relief adding glandular forms of hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal. After a couple years healing adrenals and detox, I no longer needed them. But they were a great aide. Nutricology hypothalamus, Raw pituitary, Enzymatic Therapies Adrenergize were the brands I used, but there are a few available.
     
    Chocolove likes this.
  7. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes:
    206
    I did a cortisol saliva test throughout the day and the findings are pasted below. Basically I am flatlined throughout the day. Below the squares joined by lines are me. The shaded area is where I am supposed to be!
    I have tried all kinds of adrenal supps including desicated adrenals, licorice, aswaghandha, you name it. Nothing works.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

    Messages:
    914
    Likes:
    1,149
    South East England, UK
    @Bensaw
    From everything I have learned and experienced regarding the hypo functioning of the adrenals, with a flat line pattern like you have it means that you won't be getting the bursts of cortisol you need to be able to live your life in a "normal" way. You won't be able to handle normal stresses of everyday life.

    The word stress can be misinterpreted because even something simple as eating a meal can be a stress if your cortisol isn't sufficient, you can get things like sleepiness after eating or to the other extreme even panic attacks. To be honest it's a massive topic and so many things need to be done to start healing but probably the first thing to do is to stop eating any gluten type foods and possibly dairy too to take the stress off the immune system and to eat a small snack at least every 2-3 hours after a meal consisting of some protein and good fats, nuts and seeds are ideal, and basically a lowish carb diet similar to the one Dr Myhill recommends. In fact you can learn loads from her site.

    If one has severe adrenal issues then one's mineral balance can go too and you can help yourself by adding sea salt to your drinks especially first thing in the morning but throughout the day can be helpful. The main symptom I had was a blackness would come over me at times with severe dizziness and an inability to look at bright lights plus I would pee a lot. In the end I developed quite severe POTS but if I had known about the sea salt thing I might have stopped that getting so bad.

    When one's adrenals aren't functioning properly (and it could be because the messages aren't getting through from the pituitary to the glands and in this case you probably need to see a doctor who deals in integrative medicine for help), your thyroid won't be functioning properly either or possibly sex hormones too. I had all of this for several years before I got the label ME/CFS but infact I had Hashimotos disease with adrenal insufficiency but was untreated for years.

    Obviously if the thyroid isn't functioning properly too one will be having big problems in conducting anything like a normal life.

    There is however, lots you can do but from my experience you won't get this from a traditional doctor but as mentioned above, a doctor who practises integrative medicine would be more likely able to help you.

    Good luck with it all, I remember what a nightmare it was especially when I was told my blood test for the thyroid were fine (they weren't I have high antibodies to my thyroid and my TSH was too low but so was my Free T4 but my GP didn't have sufficient knowledge and they don't usually even test for antibodies so they haven't got a complete picture).

    Pam
     
    voner likes this.
  9. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes:
    206
    Thanks Pam. Agree with a lot there. My minerals were really low and some of my hormones too as well as neurotransmitters.
    Funny you should mention sea salt. Every day I take "soul water". Which is saturated celtic sea salt water, a couple of teaspoons of that in regular water. In a couple of months, my nails are looking better than they have ever done. No white specs and shiny. I think sea salt is slowly upping my mineral level.
    I think with me, it is the master controller (the HPA axis), and if I can kickstart that somehow, I am sure it will start sending the right messages to my glands and asking them to produce the right level of hormones etc.
    I am pursuing "directed rest" with is a sort of Christian version of meditation.
     
  10. CFS_for_19_years

    CFS_for_19_years Hoarder of biscuits

    Messages:
    1,945
    Likes:
    4,870
    USA
    When I had a flat pattern like this a few years ago an integrative doctor prescribed hydrocortisone, but I couldn't tolerate it. Licorice will help extend the life of any circulating cortisol, but I see you've tried that.
     
  11. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,212
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Great, so the cortisol test confirms adrenal fatigue. It can either primary where the adrenals are actually fatigued and the traditional supplements such as adrenal cortex extract, etc. can helpful, or it's secondary, where it's a signaling problem in the hypothalamus and pituitary. It will look the same on the cortisol test.

    I believe I have the secondary kind with the signaling problem, or at least the traditional supplements are too overstimulating and not helpful. The hypothesis I've heard regarding the signaling problem is that it's due to low glutathione.

    I also had autoimmune thyroiditis - same deal as what bertiedog is saying - my TSH looked normal but my antibodies were sky high. Most doctors overlooked this except for my good doctor who figured it out by doing a complete thyroid panel. I was on Armour Thyroid for about 13 years.

    I say "had" because I have recovered from that. My complete thyroid panel is normal and I no longer need any medication. I believe this is due to somewhere between getting my last mercury filling out and starting methylation treatment. I did both around the same time. About a year and a half later, my thyroid recovered. Note that both removing mercury and doing methylation will raise glutathione.

    My adrenal cortisol test was a lot worse than yours for over a decade, but the same kind of pattern - low during the day and slightly higher at night. What has been helpful is replacing the electrolytes which are lost when your adrenals aren't working right. That would be salt, magnesium and potassium. Essential fatty acids such as fish oil may also be helpful if you have dry, gritty eyes and dry mouth. This will help stop getting more cavities due to dry mouth (ask your dentist if they think your mouth is dry).

    I only needed salt when things were worse and I was craving salt or salty foods. Then I got to a point where it was just magnesium and potassium. I needed thousands of mg of those dosed four times a day with double the amount of magnesium at night to stop twitching feet from disturbing my sleep.

    When I went through an extremely stressful period, Dr. Wilson's Adrenal Rebuilder was helpful. This has dried glands but no hormones, so it gives you glandular nutrients. I was only able to take about 1/4 of a pill, and only for a few months. Beyond that, even that was too overstimulating.

    Last summer, I retested, and my adrenals were 50% better. I recently did one partial round of Cutler frequent dose chelation for the mercury, lead and arsenic that I have. My need for magnesium and potassium has dropped dramatically in the past 6 weeks from thousands of mg to about 50 mg each for magnesium and potassium, so I believe my adrenals have gotten another notch better.

    Soooo, given all of that experience, I would suggest doing a hair test for mercury and other metals. See my signature link for info on Cutler chelation and how to do the hair test and how to get it interpreted. It's only $85, so it's a no brainer for most people unless they have extreme financial issues.

    If you decide to do chelation, I suggest only doing frequent dose chelation. I've done traditional types of chelation and gotten worse. I've heard other people report the same thing.
     
    Chocolove, jepps and Bansaw like this.
  12. Bansaw

    Bansaw Senior Member

    Messages:
    377
    Likes:
    206
    Thanks, thats all helpful. : )
    I've done the hair test a few times (results in my signature). It showed me low on just about all my minerals. I've been taking salt-water every morning and my nails have gotten a lot better,- no white specks. I still feel crap but my nails are looking good! I tried taking Iron supps but that skyrocketed my Potassium unnaturally much to my docs alarm.

    I really did try the best adrenals out there, Standard Process, Drenamin high does, licorice, the best Red Korean Ginseng, Ashwaghamda, Adrenal Desicated etc etc. But nothing made an iota of difference.
    I think, its the secondary issue I have that you mention: the signalling. My HPA is not telling my body properly to make the right amount of hormones etc, and there is exhaustion there. I think for me there is something psychological I should do as the main factor. Eg. If I stay away from negative news and do directed rest (Christian meditation), then I feel somewhat better.

    I do have mercury fillings. If I had a lot of extra finance I'd look at getting those out, but I lack the will to do that at present. I am not 100% that will help me, and my dentist wasn't encouraging when I asked him. Still, I am not ruling that out. My hair mineral test does show a touch of mercury. My doc says the body should be left to chelate naturally.
    I might look at adding some magnesium to my salt. Not sure the best way to get more potassium without upsetting other mineral balances. I've got some Magnesium oil recenty so I might start to add that to my soul(salt)water.
    (see sig for hair mineral test result, - to zoom left mouse click the image).
     
  13. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,212
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    My suggestion would be to contact the Frequent Dose Chelation Yahoo group and see if they can interpret that test for you with Cutler's counting rules. Normally they do the Doctor's Data one, but I think they can also do other ones as long as you have both the metals and minerals. The mercury showing low on a hair test is deceptive. What you actually look for is disordered mineral transport, which indicates the presence of mercury.

    As far as something psychological - that's a result of adrenal fatigue. It's good to stay away from negative news (I do the same), but it's not a cure, it just helps with symptom management i.e. it helps you tread water.

    As far as leaving the fillings in, your dentist being reluctant and your doctor saying leave your body to chelate naturally - OMG. This is terrible misinformation. My suggestion would be to get educated.

    Here are some resources:

    David Hammond's book - this book is probably the easiest to read (more non technical):
    https://www.amazon.com/Mercury-Poisoning-Undiagnosed-David-Hammond/dp/1494747898

    Cutler's book, Amalgam Illness: great info on how mercury screws up the methylation cycle and enzymes and pathways all over the body (this is what convinced me).
    http://www.noamalgam.com/

    Documentaries:
    Mercury Undercover - costs $1.99 to view on Youtube.


    There are other documentaries but I think that's the cheapest one.

    If your potassium went high, you may not need to add more. The magnesium works in conjunction with potassium, so maybe that will help counterbalance things. Magnesium glycinate is what works well for me. I looked at magnesium oil and it's super expensive, although you can make your own for cheaper (see Youtube).
     
    Bansaw likes this.
  14. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois Prairie ❀❤✿Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿❤❀

    Messages:
    4,593
    Likes:
    5,157
    Midwest, USA
    Does that mean you no longer have thyroid antibodies?
     
  15. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,212
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    Right, my thyroid antibodies are normal, as are all my other thyroid lab values, TSH, T3, T4, etc. I no longer need or tolerate medication. My doctors recheck every so often - things have been normal for 2 years.
     
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  16. caledonia

    caledonia

    Messages:
    4,203
    Likes:
    3,212
    Cincinnati, OH, USA
    I found Mercury Undercover for free on the Docurama channel on Roku.
     
  17. Justin30

    Justin30 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes:
    1,272
    Supposedly curcumin very high quality ones are suppose to work on this. Had no effect on me that I noticed.
     
  18. Violeta

    Violeta Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,627
    Likes:
    948
    Hal Huggins, the author of It's All in Your Head, who started the amalgam revolution, recommended high dose Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and selenium for dealing with mercury.

    And I just found this today,

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19893079

    The effect of ascorbate supplementation on the activity of antioxidative enzymes in the rat hypothalamus and adrenals.
     
  19. mangos21

    mangos21

    Messages:
    12
    Likes:
    21
    I used clonidine to calm down an over-active hpa axis/stress response after i worked out excessively without sufficient caloric intake. it worked pretty well.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page