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ME/CFS and Beating the Clock
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Reliability of physiological, psychological & cognitive variables in CFS & role of graded exercise

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by Dolphin, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    I agree ... I think there are neurological issues, and psychological issues, but psychiatry just seems to hijack illnesses from both groups rather randomly, then ignore the source of the problem while trying random medications for everyone to cause a solely behavioral change.

    Really bizarre, actually :p More about forcing conformity than healing.
  2. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Scotland
    According to Prof Alan Kennedy, and cognitive "science", "mind" does not encompass emotion, Alex.
    That's why my little incident wih him when he got so mad about my denial of his "rational mind" was so amusing!

    In fact, cognitive "scientists" mostly ignore emotion, they consider it beneath themselves and their lofty subject (after all, we are "rational"beings). They call it "valence" (which I thought was a frill around a bed) which they relate to arousal.

    "Theory of mind" is another psychological concept entirely.
    "Theory of mind" is an "official" developmental stage children go through - it is the stage when they recognise that somebody else might have a different viewpiont to themselves.

    The function of consciousness is to "explain" our position to ourselves rationally, to take away doubt. The explanation does not have to be correct!

    I agree completely that every "psychological" illness is physical. I agree that talking "therapies" can help a great deal - but it's the social and accepting and caring aspect that achieves this, not any particular approach.
    That has been proven - (I don't have the reference to hand, sorry) it does not matter what sort of therapy is provided - successful therapy depends entirely on the quality of the relationship between therapist and client.

    It is really time for psychology (and so psychiarty) to be dead and buried. Left as an historical anecdote like alchemy.
    It is time for Behavioural Neuroscience to take over.:thumbsup:
  3. alex3619

    alex3619 Senior Member

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    Logan, Queensland, Australia
    Warning: more philosophy.

    Hi peggy-sue, I too have come across discussion that the quality of the patient-counselor relationship is what determines outcomes more than anything. Like you I don't have references, its just stuff I have read over the years. Good therapists tend to be effective no matter the technique. However this information was before the rise of CBT, so I suspect they will argue that CBT is better than that.

    Mind and emotion are inseparable. Argument about rational mind, as opposed to mind, came to dominance in the nineteenth century, with the idea that rationality was the most important thing. Cognitive science grounded in symbol manipulation discounts emotion, its all about symbols. This is old school thinking, and so close to totally debunked I consider it ancient history. Emotion and thought are inseparable, so deeply entwined that the whole notion of rationality is currently in question. Nobody is, nor can be, completely rational. Kahneman won a Nobel prize for his work in proving that we don't think rationally and showing that "rational" actors in economic theory, for example, are not even close to rational. Emotion plays a huge part in that, and is an important factor in motivation and bias.

    Theory of mind is indeed something else. Recognition of self and others and the thoughts of others indicates someone has a theory of mind ... even some chimpanzees do this. Paint a red streak on the back of a chimp and put them in front of a mirror, and watch the antics when they see it. I don't think chimpanzees have a great capacity in this area, though I am more than a decade or two out of date on this.

    Symbols themselves have no meaning. WE, as people, and our brains and experience, give them meaning. That meaning includes emotional overtones. Its not entirely rational.

    There is so much more I can say on this but this is not the forum for it.

    Bye, Alex

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