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Reducing sleep aids experiment

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by xchocoholic, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I can't ever remember the whole name acetamena ..
    is as far as i get.

    I've got a killer headache today. It could be from cleaning
    house yesterday. I'm not feeling the need to lay down
    as much. I'm going to shoot myself if I was making
    my OI worse all these years from taking these sleep
    aids. I'm freakin rested that's for sure. ; )

    Could be withdrawal too tho.
  2. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Acetaminophen was a drug I learned about - by heart and rote - in a pharmacolgoy course I did at uni.

    In my final exam, one of the questions was a drawing of the molecule, with instructions to identify it and describe its mechanisms of action.

    Looking at that drawing, I had a; "Eureka, that's paracetamol" moment,

    so I was able to rattle off a "full marks" answer in just a couple of minutes, leaving me with the confidence and extra time to finish the other questions. I got an A for the exam.

    I did not forget my debt to acetaminophen, much as though I hate being forced to swallow the stuff. :p

    (and when I type it, I do it in sections)


    Headache does sound like withdrawal, a bit... nasty.
    Do you think the odd, single klonopin might help?

    It's not good to reduce so much and so fast that you end up hurting yourself along the way.:love:

    (sticking to my 5 pills again today)
    xchocoholic likes this.
  3. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I've been awake since 2 am. I'm beginning to
    remember why I started taking these sleep aids.

    Hopefully this is a phase and I'll start sleeping through
    the night soon. My noisy neighbor woke me up but
    I think I was just in a light sleep cause I woke up ready
    to go within a few minutes.

    Meanwhile I'm trying magnesium citrate, Natural Calm,
    to see if it will help me go back to sleep. It appears to
    be helping. g nite. x
    peggy-sue and Beyond like this.
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    peggy-sue
    Hope you get your pain under control soon.
    I have sciatica pain too and pt seemed to help.
    I had to stop due to pem tho.

    Sounds like your background is helping you
    deal with your health issues. : )

    Oh I treated the headache with ice on the base
    of my skull and on the very bottom of my spine.
    Someone, maybe Wayne, posted about using
    ice for calming neurological pain. I used a dark
    cloth to cover my eyes too. They felt hypersensitive
    to light. Twenty minutes and I was good to go.

    zzzzzzzzzz ... x
    peggy-sue and rosie26 like this.
  5. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    Cold works for my sore heads too xchocoholic, :) I have cold flannels on forehead and move it around to back of neck. Eases headache a lot and nausea that goes with it.
    peggy-sue and xchocoholic like this.
  6. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    hi,

    what are cold flannels ? I'm using those flexible
    ice packs.

    I've found electric stem plus heat works too but
    it's not easy to get. I've only gotten these at a drs
    office.

    Sooooooo .. the mag citrate didn't work and I just took
    1/2 of a .125 mg Klonopin because I'm feeling jittery.

    fun fun ... x
  7. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

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    Magnesium never worked for my sleep either, although is good for adrenal fatigue they say. What works beautifully is Benadryl.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  8. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    true. But it will make me fuzzy headed all day too.

    I've discovered my brain reacts easily to meds that
    affect the brain so I'm trying to avoid these. Except
    Klonopin anyways. I'm experimenting to see how little
    I can take and see an improvement.

    I can't believe I'm still awake but
    this is why I was on those sleep aids. bummer.
    Beyond likes this.
  9. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Magnesium helps stop my restless legs, cramps and the massive myoclonic jerks - the kind that throw you about.

    It doesn't help my sleep, but it stops my symptoms disturbing it and getting in the way.

    I haven't needed any sleep aids since I have been on the codeine.
    It seems to help with a lot of my symptoms too, certainly when I started it - or perhaps just reduces general pain and discomfort, making things a bit easier.:thumbdown:

    Benadryl (diphenhydramine, to give it its Sunday name) is a drowsy-making kind of antihistamine.
    I find it works for a few days, but that it is better to alternate it with herbal things too. :thumbsup:

    Do not, however, take it if you are taking codeine for pain.
    It disrupts the body from converting the codeine to morphine.:nerd:

    I find that the other OTC sleep aid, promethazine, is very good, but can result in a bit of grogginess the next day.

    (perhaps I should break the tablets in half, and see if they still work?)

    I have been waking earlier since I cut back to 5 painkillers....

    I had some gut crampy pains the first day, but not serious and not for long.

    I might have slept a little longer today if it had not been for some really, really weird and very lound booming noises coming from outside...

    Loud enough to sound like a helicopter coming down on top of you - I cannot work out where they are coming from - the noise is booming everywhere outside - seems to be echoing in the sky all over the city...:alien:

    yes! ;) - my background has been of value in coping with my ME.

    I may never have done something amazing professionally, or published a seminal paper on bullying, or made any money.

    But I was able to look after my Dad when the medical profession failed him.
    (pronouncing him as "in denial" - needing locked up in a nursing home, 24/7)

    He had short term memory problems. He could not understand he had a drink problem, it was not denial.
    He was a steady drinker, not a binger.
    His drinking could be controlled by controlling his money.

    He had a very happy last 9 years of life, living with the illusion of independence in sheltered housing where he made loads of friends.

    My education has not been any waste of time, finances or effort.



    xchocoholic - I so much empathise with the jitters, it's horrible, horrible, horrible. :cry: :love:

    That's why you need to cut down slowly, a little at a time - stabilising at each lower level before cutting any further.

    However, with benzos, I believe there are proper protocols for titrating down exceptionally slowly.
    Not that many gps seem to know about them.

    But whether or not you need that severity of slowness depends on the particular drug and on your own response to it.
    If you are getting jittery, perhaps you are cutting out too much, too soon.

    You are going through some very nasty extra physical and emotional stress. :hug:
    xchocoholic and Beyond like this.
  10. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    This is the first time since eliminating toxins from my
    diet that I've tried Klonopin alone. I was on it daily for
    appr 16 years but I was eating gluten etc so my body
    never felt calm.

    I hear you on the noise affects. I startle easily. Another
    reason to take Klonopin.

    I didn't know about Benadryl codeine connection. tx.
    I didn't notice it not working as well but that doesn't
    mean much. I only take codeine as needed for severe pain.
    At home
    laying down usually stops my sciatica pain. I just
    started experimenting with 600 - 800 mg of ibuprofen
    and it helps. I was only taking 400 mg before.
  11. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    :p It's when I'm lying down when it starts hurting the most.
    I can cope with the pain much better when I'm moving around.

    I startle easily myself :aghhh: (it drives Michael nuts) - but this booming noise isn't a banging, startle-y sort of sound - it works itself up and down, getting louder and softer.

    We have very high winds around right now - it's probably something being vibrated - although I did wonder if some building was being demolished....

    You need to watch out for tummy pains if you're on high doses of ibuprofen - it can make it acidy.:(

    Never take more than 1200mgs in one day - you could damage your kidneys.

    :nerd:Did you know that a psychopath has a reduced startle response?

    We must be lovely people.:D
    xchocoholic likes this.
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    lol ... I would imagine criminals do too. I had a pair
    of chihuahuas. One was a chicken and one couldn't be
    bothered to move. ; )

    Your noise reminds me of a white noise machine I bought
    once. The rain noise included huge downpour and the
    wave sound included crashing waves. It didn't work
    for blocking out noise so I could sleep. I use a loud fan and tv on a boring
    show or movie I've seen numerous times.

    tx. I'll watch the advil.

    so I went back to sleep after eating and taking the other
    half of the .125 mg Klonopin. I slept two hours. yay.
    peggy-sue likes this.
  13. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Funnily enough, I have just bought myself a really funny Australian noise thing - not a rainstick.
    (I like rainsticks. I'm not allowed them. :cry: )

    It's a cardboard tube, about 9" tall and 3.5" in diameter. It has a stiff plastic sheet - a bit like a drumskin, stuck to one end
    and in the middle of that there is a long, wiggly spring attached.

    It makes incredible booming noises when you hold the tube and wiggle the spring.:alien:

    Somebody has spent a long time painting and decorating it with beautiful colourful dotty patterns.

    My first thought this-morning was that Muzzy was playing with it - but she's terrifed of it.

    (I have to indulge in enjoying my noisy thing alone. I suspect it might be a bird-scaring thing? If I'm not careful, that will get confiscated too.)

    :balloons: Delighted to hear you managed another 2 hours - but you're still getting short on sleep.:love:

    You do need to keep monitoring how much you are suffering, as that will affect your health adversely - it's overdoing.


    I've noticed something weird on the last couple of nights, when dropping off.
    Each night, on one occassion only, when I got one of those tiny little muscle twitches (as you do),

    it was accompanied by a loud noise happening in the ear on the other side of my body to the twitch...

    auditory hallucinations?:alien: I have reduced my total codeine intake for the day by 30 mgs for 3 days now. :thumbsup:

    (And I'm doing grand - just starting to feel a little jittery today.)

    I never got to the point where I was taking as much as I was prescribed, which was up to 8 tablets a day.
    I did fine on 5 for a long time.
    I suspect this might be because of being quite ME-type sensitive to it.

    I'm dead chuffed about having done this:p - I've been meaning to, and meaning to....

    but it was YOU, xchocoholic :love: starting this thread, that got me to actually do it. Thank you!:thumbsup:

    The outside noise has stopped now. I can't find anything on the local news about what it might have been.
  14. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Since you had that auditory hallucination you
    may want to go back to your last dose of codeine. And then
    try it again another time.

    your toy sounds like a parents nightmare. ; )

    I had to Google dead chuffed. Good to hear this is
    working out for you. fwiw, when I weaned myself
    off Klonopin the first time I had to go back to
    the previous dose regularly. I only proceeded
    with the lesser dose if I didn't have any negative
    reactions. This time because I've had one two
    hour seizure that landed me in the er I'm using
    klonopin everytime I feel jittery.

    So far I haven't really woke up today. : ( I tried
    caffeine, one cigarette and a pregnenolone. Nothing.
    It feels like pem tho because my muscles feel like
    j ello.
  15. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    Hi xchocoholic :) cold flannels are cold face cloths. I probably should use some ice, might work a bit quicker:D x
    xchocoholic likes this.
  16. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    So, I just had the fire dept here because the fumes
    in my apt made it too hard ti breathe. My downstairs
    neighbor has a strong odor coming from his apt so we
    know the source just not what chemicals.

    I'm wide awake from getting dressed and going outside for fresh air.

    It would be nice if experiments could be conducted
    without all these interruptions.

    Bleh ! g nite ... x
    rosie26 likes this.
  17. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Ice works better too but is painful until the area is numb.
    Once numb tho it feels great. x
    rosie26 likes this.
  18. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I fell asleep for about an hour around 8am but the
    rest of the day was a loss. I was jittery off and on
    throughout the day and took
    1/4 - 1/2 of the .125mg Klonopin to stop it.

    Last night I took 1 mg melatonin, 100 mg 5htp and
    .125 mg Klonopin. I slept like a baby. : )

    Today's going to be rough tho since these will be
    in my system. I never found a way to completely
    undo the effects. Caffeine pills, coffee and a cigarette
    will help tho. Hate the cigarette idea but it really
    helps me.

    Have a great day. X
  19. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

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    Yuk, yuk and multiple yuk.

    Sorry I didn't reply before - I got stuck for words.

    Electronic cigarettes/ vapourisers are available in Florida - why don't you use them for the nicotine boost, rather than tobacco?


    It really does sound as if you should be "titrating" your klonopin levels down much more slowly and gradually, those "jitters" and fits are not a good sign..:hug:

    I've done a wee google on benzo titrations, found this - you might like use it as a starting point?
    http://www.choosehelp.com/detox/how...ines-2013-11-secrets-to-success#axzz2hWBsdjqO

    I wish I'd had that the last time I had to be on valium!

    I had worked out a schedule for coming off them (far, far too fast, I, like the gp I was dealing with, did not know it needed to be far slower and more gentle.)

    I got in desperate trouble with coming off it but the gp forced me to endure it. And probably marked me down as a druggie for having asked to slow it down. Sadist.


    No more auditory "hallucinations" here, still sticking to 5 pills only.:)
    It's mostly gut effects that are the bad part of cutting down. (apart from the sleep benefit)

    One day, (a long time ago), I stopped completely, but I was nauseous and violently sick the next day, with dreadful cramps.

    I'm still sleeping a good hour less than I was on 6 pills. I'm still tempted to go back to 6. It would make life easier.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  20. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    There are warnings out on those e cigs because
    of unknown reactions to the other chemicals in
    them. They look cool and I'm sure they smell
    better but I'm doing well with the organic cig
    I found. It's Spirit.

    Also I haven't seen research on what chemicals
    other than nicotine found in tobacco that may
    be contributing to the good response I'm getting.

    I may have to find a perfume or enzyme I can handle
    to eliminate the odor. haha

    The reason I needed klonopin yesterday was from lack
    of sleep. Because of my neighbor, I only got 4 hours.
    I really seem to need the mel and 5htp too tho. My
    sleep quality is much better.

    So I put 2 mg of caffeine under my tongue and
    could stand up doing dishes etc for more than an
    hour without having a pots episode. (sob and petite
    mal) I forgot to check my bp and hr afterwards.

    Sublingual appears to be important for my absorption.

    Instead of pain meds for sleep why not try sleep
    supplements or meds ?

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