1. Patients launch $1.27 million crowdfunding campaign for ME/CFS gut microbiome study.
    Check out the website, Facebook and Twitter. Join in donate and spread the word!
Can You Come for a Visit? My ME/CFS Says No
My daughter and son-in-law just had a baby last week. We are thrilled. But we won't be able to see the baby or hold her any time soon. We won't be able to take over little gifts or help out with housework or babysitting.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Reducing sleep aids experiment

Discussion in 'Sleep' started by xchocoholic, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Likes:
    1,239
    Florida
    I've been using 1 - 9 mg melatonin, up to 300 mg 5htp
    and either up to 300 mg Theanine or .125 - .5 mg Klonopin
    for the last 5 years. I need the combo for some reason.

    I've been feeling mentally sluggish for the last year and
    wasn't willing to give these up until now. I sleep like
    a log on these. Klonopin turned out to be better than
    Theanine since I have nocturnal myoclonus.

    I'm down to appr .25 mg melatonin, appr25 mg 5 http
    and .1 mg klonopin. To get the lower doses of Mel and
    5htp, I'm getting these wet and allowing a small
    amount dissolve on my tongue. This method may
    work best for me anyway since I'm a celiac.

    So far I'm only getting 5 - 6 hours of sleep at night
    and my body is feeling sore. I'm taking Advil or
    Aleve for other pain so this isn't really a problem.

    No great relief from
    mental sluggishness but i suspect it's going to take
    time for my body to adjust. I've been on these every night
    for about 5 - 6 years. I just switched from Theanine
    to Klonipon about 2 years ago.

    I'll keep you up on how this goes. It's sleep deprivation vs
    mental sluggishness. What a choice.

    anyone else try this ? tc .. x
  2. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    I don't get melantonin, don't use 5HT, cannot touch benzos in any form -
    but I have a huge amount of sympathy and empathy for sleepleesssness.:alien:

    I just want to suggest you put the stuff you are dissolving on your tongue, under your tongue instead.

    This is simply because there are huge blood vessels there which will allow the stuff to diffuse into your bloodstream better.:thumbsup:
    aimossy, xchocoholic and rosie26 like this.
  3. chronix

    chronix

    Messages:
    62
    Likes:
    59
    You shouldn't have much trouble dropping melatonin as it isn't addictive or habit forming. The trick is to get your brain to secrete its own melatonin again. I think this inability to either secrete or utilize melatonin is a part of CFS, since it's something a lot of sufferers have trouble with - getting sleepy at night, a process regulated by melatonin.

    Klonopin might be difficult to drop as it acts on the CNS and can be addictive, so good luck with that.

    If we could just get decent stage 4 sleep we'd all be significantly better off anyway. Does anyone remember what a good night's rest feels like?
    xchocoholic and rosie26 like this.
  4. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    "Does anyone remember what a good night's rest feels like?"

    :p only in my dreams!
    john66 likes this.
  5. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes:
    1,737
    Midwest, USA
    Not even in my dreams. My dreams are usually 'busy' and often unpleasant. I think they are a big part of why my sleep is unrefreshing.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  6. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    Well, you certainly don't need to be overdoing yourself in your sleep:eek:

    But I believe the reason our sleep is unrefreshing is the lack of stage 4 deep sleep.

    That is the stage that is promoted by good hard physical exertion - something denied to us all.:cry:
    Little Bluestem and xchocoholic like this.
  7. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Likes:
    1,239
    Florida
    Sorry about the delay in responding. My isp took a holiday
    yesterday.

    I took your advice and started using these under my
    tongue. tx.

    Since I hadn't been sleeping well for about a week it finally
    caught up with me. I've slept 8 - 9 hours the last couple
    of nights. Both nights my sleep was interrupted but
    last night I was only awake for a few minutes at a time.

    fwiw, I think klonopin helps me attain stage 4 sleep.
    I jerk myself awake via nocturnal myoclonus without
    this med.

    So far I haven't noticed any improvement in my mental
    sluggishness but I'm still adjusting and catching up on
    sleep.

    tx for the advice. x
  8. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    I hope it carries on improving.:thumbsup:

    (it has to be the difference between on or under your tongue...:p )

    My cramps, restless legs and myoclonic jerks mostly went after I started taking magnesium citrate daily, but I was on a slow road to improvement after a big crash when I was getting that at its worst.

    It is actually quite a relief when it gets so bad that you do manage to crash out completely
    - trouble is it only seems to last one night.:cry:
    xchocoholic likes this.
  9. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Likes:
    1,239
    Florida
    It's definitely a relief to sleep after days of little sleep.
    It's 3 am and I'm awake. I was taking more sleep
    aids if I woke up in the middle of the night but I'm not
    doing that anymore.

    I took several naps yesterday so I'm sure that's why
    I'm awake now. It's going to take time for my body
    to adjust to sleeping without assistance.

    I got off klonipin for a couple of years after getting the toxins
    out of my diet, gluten, caffeine, etc but ended up
    needing these aids afterall. The plan for now is to get
    these out of my system and take them once in awhile.
    I suspect taking these every night for years was a mistake.

    It may have helped my body heal in ways I haven't noticed
    but sleeping soundly for 5 - 6 years didn't cure my me.
    Most of my healing was from eliminating food and chemical intolerances.

    Oh, I almost forgot to say, because I know how my
    body reacts to caffeine, gluten, etc. (wired) I 'm back to eating
    mostly Paleo. I'm weaning myself off chocolate again.



    tc ... x
    peggy-sue likes this.
  10. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois prairie, USA

    Messages:
    2,403
    Likes:
    1,737
    Midwest, USA
    I agree, but I think I might get more stage 4 sleep if I did less dreaming.
    peggy-sue likes this.
  11. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    "I'm weaning myself off chocolate again."

    You are very brave and strong.:thumbsup:

    I mean it - not just the choccie - but taking control of your sleep medication, reducing it, surviving the reduction and the lack of sleep.

    Getting yourself back to a state of being able to cope with just taking something occasionally - highly commendable and not easy.
    You are absolutely correct in saying it will take time for your body to adjust - you've got to get yourself through it though:love:

    Even if it isn't refreshing - the more you can sleep in 24 hours, the fewer hours you have to be awake and surviving all your symptoms and the restricted life we lead.

    I don't know what got into me today. I woke early. My first thoughts were;

    Grrrrrr - my day is going to be 3 tedious hours longer than normal....:mad:
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Likes:
    1,239
    Florida
    Lol. Chocolate is definitely an addiction for me so it's
    not easy staying away from it. I went a few years
    without it, hence the name, but one bite leaves me
    craving it again. It's easy to justify eating chocolate.
    : )

    My head was mostly clear yesterday so this appears to
    have been the probem. The difference is clear to me
    because I'm not struggling to think but I doubt
    most people would know what I'm talking about.

    People who don't have cognitive problems or don't know
    they have them or just
    won't admit they have these just don't get it. In fact
    I have petite mals and most people I talk to don't
    recognize these. From what I've seen the ones who did were trained
    to recognize these.

    So I'm awake due to my noisy neighbors this morning.
    Someone decided taking a shower at 4 am was a good
    idea. duh !
    peggy-sue likes this.
  13. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Likes:
    1,239
    Florida
    I didn't notice any improvement in my myoclonus
    from taking mag citrate but I had it for 16 years
    and was taking Klonopin all that time. I'm not
    sure if that caused me to need it.

    Changing my
    diet, esp gluten helped a lot. I stopped jerking violently in
    my sleep but I was still jerking enough to wake me
    up. I was dx with nocturnal myoclonus via a sleep
    disorder test in the early 90's.
  14. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    Oh, you're addicted all right.:p
    Once you start, you can't stop. I'm exactly the same.:cry:
    Chocolate, alcohol, valium.... one molecule of it getting into me creates a massive thirst for MORE.

    You are now through another night - stuff is leaving your system...:balloons:

    You have inspired me to cut down on my painkillers! :hug:

    I'm on paracetamol and codeine, prescription strength, for sciatica.
    I had been stable on 5 a day, but it increased recently to 6.
    I don't seem to be addicted to it - in terms of wanting more and more because it's "nice" - I'm not sure I even liked the disinhibition it created at first.

    I've been back down to 5 for the last two days.:thumbsup:

    I'm afraid I do rather like it, for the good long sleep it gives me.:oops:

    But I am going to stabilise on 5, then see about cutting down more.
    The paracetamol worries me. It does nothing for my pain.
    It's just a poison that comes with the codeine which does the job.
    xchocoholic and Beyond like this.
  15. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    917
    Likes:
    509
    Murcia, Spain
    Right on. We have to start calling things by their names, and paracetamol is a poison. A lot of meds are, but slow acting.
  16. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    ;) There is an old saying in pharmacology, Beyond.

    The poison is the dose.


    Eating 50 lbs of carrots a day will kill you eventually. But you'll have the experience of going bright orange first.

    :cry: but I've been eating 3 grams of unneccessary, non-therapeutic poison a day .

    Paracetamol is an anti-inflammatory. It is not a painkiller.
    There is not even a proposed mechanism for how it might act as a painkiller.:mad:
    It may reduce pain caused by the physical swelling of inflammation around a nerve, but that is all.

    Otherwise, it's just placebo.
    My OH uses it as a placebo - it even only works for him if it is one prioprietary brand, Lem-sip.:p
    The one his Mum gave him when he was small. :love:

    I've been feeding myself milk thistle extract too.
    I do not know if it will help my liver deal with it or not.... I'm hoping it's not making me worse.
  17. Beyond

    Beyond 10% of discount in iHerb!--> PEZ915

    Messages:
    917
    Likes:
    509
    Murcia, Spain
    A guy called Basil Brown died from drinking gallons of carrot juice PLUS taking large amounts of vitamin A supplementation. I am happy with my big glass of carrot juice one some days.

    Milk thistle cannot be bad IMO.

    When there is pain, sometimes we dont have a choice. I have taken some things I shouldnt in hopes of reducing pain. So dont be hard on yourself. Look for a way to reduce the pain that is not "poison" related. But in the mean time if there isnt anything better what works for pain should be used.
    xchocoholic likes this.
  18. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    Oh, I'm well at the point of believeing strongly in quality of life over quantity of it, I see no point in suffering .
    (and I am getting on a bit.)

    I have read one research paper on milk thistle - where it was found to have seriously beneficial protective effects on the livers of those undergoing chemotherapy.

    That gave me the confidence to use it - but I honestly don't know if i'm not just wasting a lot of money on it. It is expensive. I'm just hoping.:p
    xchocoholic likes this.
  19. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,608
    Likes:
    1,239
    Florida
    I've been using himalaya liver care or bupleurum liver
    cleanse. Both make me burp up something I ate or
    drank recently and the Himalaya brand used
    to make my head clearer on occasion but that's
    all I've noticed.

    I'm anti pain too. : ) Since I have inflamion I feel best
    with 600- 800 mg Advil or 2 Aleve. I need codeine
    at times too tho.

    I thought paracetonel was tylenol.
  20. peggy-sue

    peggy-sue

    Messages:
    2,494
    Likes:
    2,871
    Scotland
    Tylenol is a brand name for paracetamol, as is panadol, lemsip,
    Life would be so much easier if we could stick to the generic drug name!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tylenol

    Acetaminophen.:thumbsup:
    rosie26 and xchocoholic like this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page