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Reduced Gait Automaticity In Female Patients With CFS

Discussion in 'Latest ME/CFS Research' started by ballard, Jan 24, 2016.

  1. ballard

    ballard Senior Member

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    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26745400

    This study compares gait automaticity between women with CFS and non disabled controls:

    "The "stops walking with eyes closed with secondary cognitive task" test is based on the classic "stops walking while talking" test but compares walking with eyes closed while performing a secondary cognitive task in a female CFS population (n = 34) and in female nondisabled controls (n = 38).

    When initiating gate, 23.5% of patients with CFS looked toward the ground compared with only 2.6% of nondisabled controls. After 7 m, subjects were asked to close their eyes, and after another 7 m, they were asked, "How much is 100 minus 7?" Of the patients with CFS, 55.9% stopped walking compared with 5.3% of nondisabled controls. Less automated walking was observed in patients with CFS than in nondisabled controls (p < 0.001)."

    This study may shed some light on why I careen into door frames and walk like a drunken sailor. One of the first things I noticed when I became ill with ME/CFS 24 years ago was that I no longer walked normally.
     
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  2. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I think many moderate and severe ME patient have a typical ME gait. It is more pronounced during flares.
     
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  3. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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  4. ballard

    ballard Senior Member

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    Keela Too, I really liked your thoughtful blog about impaired gait in ME/CFS.
    http://sallyjustme.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/when-auto-pilot-fails.html

    "We can be quick to blame ourselves for our clumsy, brain-fogged, un-coordinated abilities and grumble about having poor multi-tasking skills, but maybe we should be watching for these times and using them to judge when we are getting "dangerously okay" and in need of some extra rest?"

    "Dangerously okay" seems like a key concept for people struggling with ME/CFS. It took me over a decade to learn that.
     
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  5. Marco

    Marco Grrrrrrr!

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    Thanks for the blog which sounds oh too familiar in fact I overdid things in the garden this afternoon and the first thing to go was my gait which slowed right down, legs splayed, foot dragging and consciously having to think about every step. I think of these attacks like a mini stroke.

    Funny as well that you mentioned the visual tracking impairments. Like you, I feel that objective measures such as these could help with diagnosis and measuring health status in ME/CFS.

    I was just thinking about that this morning :

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ements-quicker-diagnosis-of-concussion.42593/
     
  6. panckage

    panckage Senior Member

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    What a strange study. I think the results have more to do with orthostatic intolerance than anything unique to ME
     
  7. rosie26

    rosie26 Senior Member

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    I have this gait thing going on as well. I try to walk normally but I fall back into wider spaced-out legs and I shuffle when coming to a stop and kind of do a stop where my body still feels in motion.

    I find the wide open spaces very hard where there is a lot of movement in all directions, people zipping here and there in front of me. I often have to stop and just wait a few seconds to try and gain more stability on my feet. The shopping malls are hellish when very busy. I have to walk very slowly because people suddenly change direction in front of me and if I were walking faster, stopping is harder and it's a full-time job trying to concentrate on getting to where you going and all the stop, starts are exhausting and sickening.

    Also, buildings that are large internally with very high ceilings are really bad for me. I don't last very long in them - it bugs me, because I want to do more shopping but my body just wants to get out of there. I miss shopping and being able to take my time to look at things. Everything is hurried, get what I have to get and sometimes I have to leave before getting a few of the things that I wanted.

    The gait to me feels very 'held together', I don't think my hips move much.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
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  8. daisybell

    daisybell Senior Member

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    Do you think this is an ataxia, poor balance, or to do with difficulties processing visual info and proprioceptive info??
    I have noticed that I lose my balance much more easily, and I can't cope with walking near drops/edges at all. I'm not scared of heights but I can't balance if there's a big drop. I found myself almost completely stuck at work (when I was still trying to work) when I was trying to go down the stairs from the 4th floor and the stairs had glass on one side.... I had to hold on the banister and not look out!
     
  9. SickOfSickness

    SickOfSickness Senior Member

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    @rosie26 I would be curious about your answers to daisybell's question above.

    I have trouble with when people, cars, or other movement is in multiple directions too. Also balance issues near an edge. I'm not sure why I have the problems and want to figure it out. Sometimes I thought it was my inner ear.
     
  10. roller

    roller wiggle jiggle

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    i also would confirm that its caused much by hearing and vision issues - which are caused by the vagus nerve in the first place, i believe.
    the negatively impacted vagus will negatively impact substance p (emetic/motion sickness).
     
  11. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senescent on the Illinois Prairie ❀❤✿Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿❤❀

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    I stumble, trip, and, very occasionally, fall more often than I did before ME/CFS. I also fumble and drop more.
     
  12. daisybell

    daisybell Senior Member

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    yes, I definitely am not as coordinated. I find myself banging plates etc when putting crockery away. I've chipped lots of stuff, which really annoys me, and I would NEVER have done this pre-ME, as I would say I was a careful person. I just don't seem to have the same ability to judge distance and carry out movements accurately...
     
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  13. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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    I think it's all down to processing speed. Days I feel better I have fewer problems.
     
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  14. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    I think only partly.
     
  15. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    I recall describing to a consultant about 30 years ago the abnormalities of gait and how these could be overcome to an extent by bringing movement under conscious, rather than automatic, control. The trouble with this was that the conscious control could not then do the other things that would normally be done. I presume that this new research is indicating something of that sort.

    So that's only 30 years lost due to the psychobabble.
     
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  16. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    This research comes from psychobabblers, so I wouldn't expect much good to come from it... I agree that it shows the reality of our situation, i.e. disturbed gait. But I expect this crew to then jump up and say: let's fix their gait through graded physiotherapy. Cause that seems to be their conclusion to any of their research I've seen...
     
  17. Chrisb

    Chrisb Senior Member

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    That is an alarming suggestion. I presumed that they were interested in the machine, rather than the ghost which they seem to imagine occupies it.

    I could tell them now, it won't work.
     
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  18. Effi

    Effi Senior Member

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    They are only interested in their own pet theory, and they are doing everything in their power to build a scientifically sound-looking paper fort around it. The fact that we do not fit into said fort didn't and doesn't seem to bother them at all. They have and they will force us into it if they have to. FIY this is more than a suggestion: these people were the driving force behind agressive GET over here, then got shut down because people were getting sicker instead of better. And now they're trying to rebuild their construct so it looks slightly different on the outside, but on the inside it's just the same old babblefest.
     
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  19. Valentijn

    Valentijn The Diabolic Logic

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    They must get so annoyed when we piss all over their adorable little paper fort :cool:
     
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  20. Sean

    Sean Senior Member

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    If that annoys them, just wait until the 84th Airborne Patient's Squadron starts crapping on it from a great height as well. :nervous:

    Bombs Away!

    :whistle:
     
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