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reduce inflammatory cytokines, Importance of Diet

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Martial, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    I agree with Martial that paleo diet is mainly about avoiding toxins, anti-nutrients and allergens, as well as avoiding spikes in blood sugar. But paleo doesn't have to equal (very) low carb. There is convincing evidence that people in paleo times ate tubers, and that we really need to have carbs for optimal health.

    I recommend the Perfect Health Diet for anyone with chronic illness. I have started this diet about a month ago, and things are going well. It is basically a paleo diet with starches (white rice, potatoes, tubers). The starches are not only necessary to sustain energy, but also to feed your microbiome. Without fermentable starches, you will end up with gut dysbiosis.

    Although this board is not crawling with diet threads, we do have a few good ones. The resistant starch thread contains very valuable information about diet, and I recommend everyone to read it.
  2. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi @Martial etc I find it so interesting that when I show some understandable sceptisim of you intitial post I am spoken to as if I am some kind of bleary eyed newcomer!!

    I have done a lot of research into 'Paleo/stone age diets' I have been a patient of Dr Myhills for 4 years so theres no getting away with not cleaning up your diet with her. I was just pointing out that paleo is not the end all and be all and does make some peoples health worse. My gut couldn't tolerate it for whatever reason, which without expensive testing I may never know - perhaps an allergy - certainly not to meat as I don't eat it (yeah I know now we have to have yet another massive discussion about meat eating which I don't have the energy or stomach for - pardon the pun)

    I have had a couple of years off of all sugars and refined carbs in the past and still gained weight. My metabolism appears to be very broken - adrenals off, hormones off, severe nutritional deficiencies, mito problems on testing, and a list of symptoms that is as long as my arm. In other words I have M.E - currently an incurable illness, which I do not belive is going to be cured by diet. If it can be proven to me that a specific diet really works tpo improve many symtpoms within a time frame of less than many years I would give it a try - in fact I have tried many diets and variations - often despite not having enough money to live on and not having enough energy or brain power to prepare food for myself, let alone my family.

    There are many excellent threads on PR on diet - recently there has been a lot of polititcal discussion, but that doesn't mean that the discussions on diet haven't been there over the years.

    FWIW my two years of very restricted diet a la Myhills protocol did not help any of my M.E or gut symptoms. it did clear up a systemic candida which came on after a year on antibiotics and for that I am very greatful - in the end there were no other gains and it was making me miserable and was very expensive and time consuming for a very sick person.

    I am though very happy for all those who have found help and relief from diet - I wish I were one of them, but so far have not found the right diet.
    Ruthie24 and xchocoholic like this.
  3. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    if u can pull it out of the ground or off a tree or it runs around the ground or flies in the air then its probably a good food choice as long as man hasnt refined it too much and or put it in a packet.
    Carbohydrate levels i think vary depending on ones insulin sensitivity. good insulin sensitivity means more carbs u can get away with, if u have crap insulin sensitivity then need few carbs and probably were the fat kid at school like me, although can develop as we age.
    Lillybelle and merylg like this.
  4. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Maybe the paleo diet only worked for healthy cavemen too. Once someone became weakened by illness they were extinct. I certainly couldn't run from a predator at this point. tc ... x

    btw. I over produce insulin ( hyperinsulinemia per GTT + insulin test) so I'm not sure where that leaves me dietwise. I just know from years of trial and error that my petite mals respond to a quick sugar boost. Two - three DEX4 and stopping all movements for a few minutes work the best.
    justy likes this.
  5. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Um, just to be clear, I see the value in eating properly. I'm still 85-90% paleo.
    I also avoid high oxalate foods due to kidney stones and pelvic pain. Just fyi, all those high oxalate foods in the paleo diet appear to be triggering oxalate related problems in people with leaky gut.

    Most of my long list of cfs symptoms are from food intolerances especially gluten. I have the dq2 gene. Starting in 1990, I had ataxia, constant buzzing, insomnia, narcolepsy, chronic sore throat, etc etc. I started the elimination diet in 2005 and by September 2006, most of my symptoms vanished including my ataxia.

    Since 2008 my remaining cfs symptoms, OI, PEM, seizures, chronic hypoglycemia, ? have been under control via diet, Klonopin, pacing and laying down frequently. My OI is 24/7.

    So I'm not anti diet, I'm just saying it didn't cure my OI, PEM, petite mals, hypoglycemia, ?.

    I would never go back to eating the way I did. I feel better eating real food.

    Better ? x
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
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  6. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member

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    It would be perhaps useful for diet to be it's own forum topic here but there are diet discussions ongoing under alternative therapies, the gut and addressing biotoxins all in the treatments section and under symptoms ~ gastrointestinal.

    The problem with the subject as I see it is it's complexity. Eating a diet with the objective of reducing inflammation seems reasonable enough. But there are so many other considerations.

    For example, some of us are unable to afford the right foods. Or if money isn't the issue than the energy to purchase and/or prepare the food is a problem.

    But beyond that issue, the people here who can afford and are able to pursue a diet have had conflicting responses. Probably because as well as inflammation there are other issues.

    Another problem to consider is that healthy food can be making us who are genetically vulnerable sick.
    There is a current thread on glyphosate, the article is here:

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...gn=20140213Z1&et_cid=DM39324&et_rid=426505208

    The way food is grown is a health issue not just how it's packaged. Here is another link on the topic:
    http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/soil-depletion-and-nutrition-loss/

    I've found it takes a lot of reorganising to introduce new foods and a different way of eating. It's not something that comes together easily and therefore (I think) people expect to see some real benefit as a result of the effort. This doesn't always happen.
    It can be discouraging so (again I think) people tend not to rush to embrace new diets.

    For myself I have almost eliminated gluten and reduced carbs and sugar. The results are not overwhelming for the effort that has gone into it. I have stated elsewhere that as far as gluten free goes any benefit might have as much to do with eliminating fortified vitamins cyanocobalamin and folic acid.

    Having said all that, I have been using turmeric powder in cooking for some time and have recently been increasing the amount I use in the foods I eat. I'd be very happy if it helps reduce inflammation and alleviate symptoms. But I feel somewhat jaded about the way food is grown to feel that it is the solution.



    Kapualahi, Ruthie24 and justy like this.
  7. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6

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    The leaky-gut forum is full of diet threads. I do agree that there should be a forum dedicated to diet though. In the absence of that, if you put the word 'diet' in the search box you will find lots of relevant threads.
    justy likes this.
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    sometimes one just needs some kfc, finger lickin good.:p
    Ruthie24, xchocoholic and Firestormm like this.
  9. Ayaju

    Ayaju Senior Member

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    Yes, Gary, I love the structured water so much, and my family and I have experienced so many amazing benefits already, that I signed up for free with a distributor to be an independent consultant (as I mentioned in an earlier post). Patrick is so generous, and cares so much about his mission to hydrate humanity, that he gives his Water Ambassadors a generous percentage if anyone purchases a device from him due to hearing about it from the WAs. Gotta love that! It would be wayyy too much work for me to sign up as a Distributor myself!

    Judy
  10. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Yes, When are cells are not making ATP they become chronically dehydrated. I use to play football so i know dehydration very well. I think we need to be drinking half are body in fluid ounces or more to compensate for this problem. I devoted my hours of research to nutrition and my conclusion is we need to avoid toxic man made processed foods. As we get older, we need to eat less to compensate for this body's lack of detoxification.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  11. Allyson

    Allyson *****

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    as for diets - the Low FODMAPS diet I can recommmend for IBS

    and high protein low GI diet helps me

    I took curcumin for a while - did not seem to do mu - then I read you should take it with oily food
    \


    A
  12. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    @xchocoholic That is not bad at you for all, in terms of the sugars from fruit.. MUCH different then eating candy bars.. This is why I say use a Personalized diet based on Paleo.. This means you avoid all the major food toxin sources and can personalize things for what works for you!

    No diet program is written in stone, we are all individuals with our own separate needs!
  13. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    @Radio

    I'm finding that I do better eating foods that contain water or juice than I did drinking water, juice, etc. Of course if I'd had access to coconut water 24/7 that would be ideal.

    I've been eating 2-5 oranges or tangerines daily for the last few months and I'm not chronically dehydrated like I was when drinking 8-10 glasses a day of water, juice, etc. Those didn't solve the problem. They just made me want more.

    Tc .. x
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  14. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    @Martial

    ; ) I'm eating candy bars now too. I run out of available glucose if I'm active and can't seem to produce it on my own.

    Doing anything aerobic, laundry walking etc requires that I supplement with sugar or substantial fructose like is found in oranges or raisins.

    When I was trying to stay on a strict low glucose paleo diet, I found that I was grabbing for something everytime I had to run errands and after 7-8 years finally realized my need for sugars wasn't going to stop.

    I don't know how common this is. Knowing and accepting this has removed my anxiety about eating sugar or a substantial source of fructose. Typically OJ or raisins.

    I'm also seeing that I need caffeine or other stimulant to function. I'll do whatever it takes at this point. :)

    Tc ... x
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
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  15. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Whatever works for you, At least you got a good excuse to stick to the naughty foods ;) hahaha
    xchocoholic likes this.
  16. Radio

    Radio *****

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    Yes, Living water is very healing to the body. We have to be careful of eating too much fruit, especially if we have mast cell issues. When I was sick I would eat 4 to 5 cucumber a-day. Cucumber are very hydrating.
    Little Bluestem likes this.
  17. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Cukes cause me too much gas but less if i skin them and remove the seeds.

    Why avoid fruit if we have mast cell issues? That seems counter intuitive.
    Fruits are loaded with healthy nutrients.

    I had to slowly re-introduce fruit back into my diet after avoiding it for a few years but now I can eat 2-3 tangerines at once without od-ing on fructose. I'm eating about 5 fruits daily.

    I was pro paleo pro low sugar for 5 years but have decided it never gave me the energy I needed to be active. I was fine at rest but needed additional fuel, sugar or extra fryit, for any activity. I do best with rausins or oranges not apples or bananas. Those are just thr fruits I've tried multiple times when I was crashing and needed energy.

    I was feeling guilty for buying gf goodies or some other form of sugar or OJ when I was out running errands until I figured out my low blood sugar was behind those cravings.

    I have low bp too so I need to salt load when I'm out aka upright for any length of time. I'm not sure if my OI is causing this or if this is causing my OI.

    Dr Myhill says that most pwcs have chronic hypoglycemia and recommends the paleo diet. I see how the paleo diet is good for avoiding food intolerances but it certainly never solved my energy problem.

    She also recommends a shot of caffeine for energy. It's been my experience that she was right about caffeine. Live and learn. :)

    Tc ... x
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  18. Radio

    Radio *****

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    We need to be careful of eating too much fruit, high blood sugar spikes can activate mast cells(.)
  19. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    For me, cravings for sugar are an indicator of needing vitamin C. I take some, and the craving is gone.

    I have been paleo for about 9 months, but the problem I have with it is, it is so extremely HIGH in sugar and glycemic index. All those tubers.

    Can't type much today, but my 2 cents :).
  20. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Eat those tubers with fats and acids and they won't spike your blood sugar.
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