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reduce inflammatory cytokines, Importance of Diet

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by Martial, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    As we all know here infammatory cytokines is a huge component of CFS, and other chronic illnesses like auto immune disease, lyme etc..

    In some cases people get in a vicious cycle of relapse or prolonged illness due to multidudes of reasons but notably methylation issues, enviromental and food toxins, heavy metals, and ongoing infection.. All of these issues cause notable raise in infammatory cytokine release to fight infection, or to protect the body.

    I often see a lot of info on this site about the importance of proper supplementation and new drugs, tools, or treatments for recovery but am shocked to see the lack of info on things like diet.

    I had posted in another thread the importance of proper diet, as many other recent posters have recently advocated, but does everyone know that having a strong anti inflammatory diet will ALSO reduce and reverse the Inflammatory response of cytokines?

    Most notably having a strong omega 3, to 6 ratio, avoiding food toxins that create an inflammation response, and eating foods that help to restore a balance of normal cellular growth, function, and harmonization without food triggers that cause dumps of excessive omega 6's, and things that prevent healing and keep one in a vicious cycle..


    Alongside any protocol that is needed, heavy metal detox, methylation, treating underlying infection, I believe this to be as equal of a component and necessary for full remission and not bumping into issues of relapse as well..


    I have posted some links to the best nutrition sources I could find again in this thread and really highly urge everyone to go out and read up as much as possible! I really believe that a proper diet is a huge component of coming through chronic illness and is definitely something everyone should take seriously to get full health back!


    Diet and nutrition sites most reputable, I posted Chris's best article series as reference as well


    http://chriskresser.com/perfect-health

    http://robbwolf.com/

    Cytokine reducing diet /treatment

    http://blogs.kqed.org/bayareabites/...that-reduce-inflammation-and-optimize-health/

    http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/yogastress.htm

    https://www.pritikin.com/your-healt...-weight-loss/1681-inflammatory-cytokines.html

    http://www.ncnm.edu/helfgott-research/projects/nutrition/anti-inflammatory-diet-study.php

    http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)60527-9/abstract


    Most notably Turmeric has been found as the best inflammatory cytokine reducer, returning cytokines to normal states of function.

    I also highly recommend fermented fish cod oil as a dietary supplement for anyone on here looking to reduce inflammation. It has a good amount of vitamin a included, as well as D, and vitamin K2 which no one usually includes in most modern diets, but so vital for good health! The liver cod also helps to balance fatty acid ratios and act as a natural anti inflammatory..

    This is the only brand I find trustworthy and reliable for this supplement as well!

    http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/CodLiverOil/
    Radio, shah78 and Thinktank like this.
  2. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    What about curcumin, the active ingredient in tumeric? I prefer just to take curcumin as, from what I have read, there is a bigger bang for the buck.

    Sushi
  3. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Yes definitely that is the anti inflammatory ingredient responsible for it.. Even better to take a bio available form of curcumin, I use Thera Curcumin I think it is called.. Taking curumin alone without the proper availability will give you about 10% or less of its actual potential..
  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    I used circumin for several months. I didn't notice any changes. If it was cheaper I would keep it going but the cost of it I couldn't see the value.

    As for diet many feel a lot better on low carb Atkins style diet which I do but it does seem to be an individual thing, maybe related to absorption issues or different levels of insulin sensitivity.

    Nutrients that seem to be commonly found low in cfs are q10, carnitine so maybe these require supplementation as the demand for these is higher than one can get from diet alone.
    Adlyfrost and justy like this.
  5. justy

    justy Senior Member

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    Hi Martial, i'm surprised you think there isn't much info around here about diet - I find the forums positively groaning under the weight of diet advice!

    I had a look through your links as i'm still trying to find the best diet for me. I noticed that some of your recommendations are at odds with each other - one section on paleo (high fat and proteinlow carb) and one lot are n Pritkin diet (low fat and meats) This has me a bit confused - what do you think is best?

    For me the paleo diet was a terrible disaster and messed my stomach up very badly. I also clearly have developed some type of metabolic problem as I have gained (and keep gaining) lots of weight over the past 2 years and no matter what diet I try I keep on gaining, so unfortunately yet more body fat to keep those cytokines going.

    The Lancet link wasn't about diet, but the benfits of Vitamin D - I found vit D to be very good for brain fog at one point.

    The yoga article was interesting - I practised yoga for many years before getting sick and also whilst in my mildly affected years (so it obviously didn't stop my illness from progressing) Unfortunately I am now no longer able to do ANY exercise beyond the occasional very short walk. Trying to add any stretching - even 5 mins of yoga a few times a week into my daily routine leads to a reduction in ability to function. I would love to tbe able to do regular exercise or stretching, but have long since decided that having slightly more energy for daily living is far preferable to being able to do 10 mins of yoga a day but not be able to dress or shower or cook a meal.

    As Heaps suggests many PWME are found to be low in nutirients - despite a very clean and healthy diet for years my testing with Dr Myhill showed a myriad set of quite notable deficiencies. I supplemented with carntine, co q10, selenium, iorn etc etc on and off for a number of years with only minimal benefits and I wonder really what is the ROOT cause of all of this?

    Anyways, fpr now I have to say I need to get back off the sugar altogether and see if that helps in any way. I have had severe sugar addiction in the past and its got out of control again recently - such a hard one to deal with, especially when lonely/miserable/isolated.

    All the best,
    Justy
  6. Ayaju

    Ayaju Senior Member

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    I am wondering how big of a role dehydration has in our inability to absorb nutrients or even to lose weight? I'm learning so much about this subject. In the book, "Your Body's Many Cries For Water", by a doctor with a really long last name!, his research leads him to believe that most ailments are caused by dehydration. It is a fascinating read! 94% of us are dehydrated. I know that since I started using structured water three months ago, I've seen some significant changes in my body and health. Structured water has the ability to hydrate the body, from what I understand, because it has lower surface tension than all other types of water and so can penetrate the cells. I have finally lost 6 lbs. and hope I lose more, and my physical pain is vanquished. This is a miracle to me!!! I can't help but hold on to the hope that long-term use of SW via drinking and showering will bring much more healing of the CFS and Hashimotos!

    Judy
    justy likes this.
  7. Rand56

    Rand56 Senior Member

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    hi Judy

    What type of device are you using to structure your water?
  8. Ayaju

    Ayaju Senior Member

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    Since I am an independent consultant for the company, I'm prohibited from saying in the forum.
  9. Butydoc

    Butydoc

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    What is structured water? Is it more than H2O. Does it have other chemicals in it? Is it in a different physical form?

    Regards,
    Gary
  10. Ayaju

    Ayaju Senior Member

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    Gary ~ turns out all water is more than H20! We are still learning so much about the wonders of water in this world! There are no chemicals; it energizes the water restoring it's life simply by movement. Structured water devices spin the water to the left and to the right creating a double vortex; mimicking natural spring water dancing over the rocks. It's truly that simple. Natural spring water at the source of the rocks is structured (alive). Water sitting in bottles, our pipes, our reservoirs is sadly dead. Not to mention toxic. Structuring the water neutralizes all toxins. It's absolutely true. I totally believe it.
  11. adreno

    adreno 3% neanderthal

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    Structured water? Ahem, okay the pseudoscience knows no limits. I guess my toilet bowl is a good water structurer; it certainly creates a nice vortex. If "structuring" the water neutralizes all toxins, it should even be safe to drink. Cheers.

    Good thread about diet though. I believe this is fundamental for recovery.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
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  12. Sushi

    Sushi Moderator and Senior Member Albuquerque

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    Or just take your curcumin with some good black pepper which is supposed to greatly increase its bioavailability.

    Sushi
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  13. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    You and Radio are constantly beating me to starting these types of "what actually works" threads. Which is a very good thing, because procrastination is one of the few symptoms I have left.

    also I repectfully disagree with you Justy on the nutrition discussion abundance. Vast majority is political and microbe hunting. Google: phoenix rising and Kurt Harris Jack Kruse, Mark Sisson, or plain Paleo Diet. Not much.

    Also Justy, Please consider that there really isn't a "Paleo Diet". from which to have a disaster with. It's just REAL meat, REAL fat and REAL post neolitic carbs. The disaster happens with too much protein, too much fat or too much carbs and/or too little protein, too little fat or too littler carbs.

    You seem to have eaten too little carbs. Check out the great blog of Kurt Harris MD called archevore.com.He is the Thomas Jefferson of Ancestrial Eating. Kurt's stand on micronutrient ratios is self professed AGNOSTIC..... Though I agree with you on the Pritikin reference. WTF? I followed Nathan for almost ten years and dug 5 and a half feet of my own grave! Low fat, no cholesterol and lot of grains. What's up with that?

    Martial I know you've got something up your sleeve. But what? LOL!
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2014
  14. Butydoc

    Butydoc

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    Hi Ayaju,
    It appears you are an ambassor for a company that makes a product which makes this structured water. Do you get paid by that company?

    Regards,
    Gary
  15. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    The main sites for diet I recommend are chris's and Rob Wolf's both of which have excellent resources in their own rights.. I am not sure about other diet sources but as far as I know it everything I posted was a template for paleo.. I added some extra articles on the bottom about cytokines and its relation to diet, just some other different studies that were done...

    I don't know how you gained weight on paleo but it is possible maybe you are say having allergies to the meat and this is causing an inflammatory response, leading to other issues like insulin resistance which add to gaining additional fat.. It is hard to say though, Also I do not reference the "paleo diet" per say but using that as a template to create one's own personalized program.. We are all different in our nutritional needs so adressing these things individually is very important.

    The idea behind the paleo diet is that you mainly avoid the big issues of toxins in nutrition; mainly wheats, grains, gluten, things of that nature, as well as anything with preservatives or excess vegetable oil, and sugar.. You can always add say quinoa if one finds it beneficial to them, also certain things like Kefir, or yams, potatos, etc..

    The whole idea is to just avoid major offenders that everyone reacts to on some degree or the other and triggers inflammation for everyone again to some degree or another. To understand your unique situation I would need to know a lot more about the things you were eating, the amount, how often, times of day etc.. There is a lot of variables that come into the equation and it is hard to say what is the triggering issue without a full log of the entire diet, and lifestyle in that period..

    Also some cultures strive better on a diet that is very high in carbs, with balanced protein, low fat etc... The micro nutrient profiles and types of food there are very different then traditional american diet per say..

    You can not go by the macro nutrients alone, and different people need to find their basic metabolic rate, and the times to eat, and portions that work best for them...

    Things like eating a lot of fruit late at night are a big no, no for example..

    I could go on and on about all of this but the basic point is that this is all very individualized and everyone is unique in their own ways, so the whole premise behind optimum nutrition then is to find what works for YOU, while also avoiding the food toxins that will create issues for anybody.


    Again you don't have to do yoga or exercise per say, these were just things I found that had been helpful in reducing inflammation. I would imagine the choice for normal day to day function to also be far more important as well, everyone has to work around what they are dealing with.

    I think a large part of your metabolic issues may primarily have to do with the sugar though, that's usually the biggest trigger for metabolic issues, and weight gain in the long term.. The rise in obesity and diabetes from all the corn syrup, soda's, added sugar sweets, etc.. Our bodies are not designed to process and digest most sugars that are produced and added to things like soda's, candies, and cakes.

    Combined with a lack of much physical activity which is totally understandable with M.E. then things begin to add up since you are not burning off the excess calories, and usually the metabolism will be much slower as well...
    Radio likes this.
  16. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Sure whatever works man!
  17. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Lol, I am just trying to cover all bases here, also I know some others mentioned nutrition being addressed on this site as well, most I have seen has been very inadequate though..

    Also to everyone reading I am also not saying diet alone is going to cure M.E. this is a very complex multi level issue and one has to address many different facets of lifestyle, toxicities, deficiencies, infections, etc.. Nothing in this world will ever fit in a box, and I think by having a black and white view on different things we really block the full ability of understanding and insight of a mind with no judgement..

    In Zen they have a saying called Beginners Mind and I think this is so important when trying to learn anything new, and to just simply live, fully!

    "By definition, having a beginner’s mind means having an attitude of openness, eagerness, and freedom from preconceptions when approaching anything. Beginner’s mind is actually the space where the mind does not know what to do. It is that delicious state when you are sure of nothing, yet completely fearless, totally available to the moment." -nithyananda
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  18. shah78

    shah78 Senior Member

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    I think the expression about Diet is "Necessary,but not sufficient". The Romans also had"sine quod,non." Cicero probably coined it in reference to his curing his own CFS with diet and extra liver juice. lol
  19. Martial

    Martial Senior Member

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    Lol interesting I bet those b12s from the liver did amazing things too ;)
  20. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Just so you know, we were on a diet thread kick here a few months ago. I got burned out talking about it and am guessing others may have too.

    If you search this site for paleo, gluten or wahls you'll find these threads.

    Fwiw, I followed a mostly Paleo type diet for about 5 years until last year. I've been known food intolerance free for 8.

    I gave up on the paleo diet because my body never adjusted to eating this way as I have chronic low blood sugar and need fruit or sugar to help control petite mals. The ketogenic and MAD diets were too hard on me. I was too close to fainting constantly.

    I realize sugar is supposed to be bad for us but I have to use fruit or sugar to control my petite mals. Dex4 actually works best for me. I've tried all the other possible solutions that I heard of in the last 8 years. Fats didn't help. Etc etc. That's just me tho. I'm a celiac with digestive weaknesses.

    Also, if you Google cytokines prohealth there should still be an excellent article on this.

    tc ... x
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
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