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Recurrent cold like virus and downstream effects

Discussion in 'General Symptoms' started by asymmetry, Jul 11, 2017.

  1. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    Hi all

    Not sure if this is the best forum to post this in, but it's worth a shot. I'd appreciate anyone's thoughts.

    About once a week I get what feels like a cold, except it never really turns into a cold. I dont get the usual runny nose etc but I get post nasal drip, I sneeze more (but not much, compared to someone with a normal cold). These symptoms last a few days, I can sometimes get headache, facial pain and sometimes feel deeply tired, more than my usual manageable ME tired. I also just feel a bit rubbish generally, sometimes walking around feels like I'm walking on a trampoline. I've put this down the inflammation. Sometimes I'll have leg and back ache, much like you get when you have the flu.

    After I've had these symptoms in the head for a few days, they inevitably move to my digestive system where I'll get loose bowls (plus horrible smell, sorry for the detail). This to me seems that whatever virus was in my head has simply moved on down to my stomach and on from there. During the head symptoms, I do feel stuff draining down my throat so this kind of makes sense. It's a real shame stomach acid doesnt kill whatever it is.

    When my digestive system gets upset, my mood will often change and my anxiety will shoot up. Seeing as the anxiety is one of the more nasty symptoms to experience, I have been focusing lately on addressing that, using some of the advice from here on the forums by user Hip.

    After a couple of days, the digestive symptoms will pass and I'll feel back to normal for a few days only, then it will often kick off again. I used to work in an office, and had a theory that because I have ME I was just picking up every bug going around. So I took a job where I could work from home, and more or less isolate myself to test the theory. My theory was wrong. I still get this same issue week in week out no matter what I do - it's as if whatever it is, exists in me permanently and just keeps getting a foothold. I've tried lots of things, especially around supplements and eating right. Nasal rinses, vicks cold spray. One of the odd symptoms I've noticed is that after a bowel movement, my anxiety will often come down dramatically. It's as if whatever was in there was poisoning me in someway.

    So, what I'm trying to solve really is the problem of why I keep getting this recurrent cold like virus, for if I can solve this or at least get on top of it the other symptoms may subside.

    Has anyone else experienced anything similar? anyone got anything I could try? the Doctors are at a loss. If I could solve this, or get the frequency of occurrence right down, life would be so much better as this has a huge impact.
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  2. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    It sounds like you have leaky gut (syndrome) like many of us here. This thread suggests ways to deal with it: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-and-sometimes-achieves-full-remission.13463/

    That said, I seem to have progressed beyond it, and have got worse. Just hoping that I can survive until I can afford to have my teeth fixed at last, as they are possibly the cause.

    My message 79 in that thread gives a couple of links, which are also in my profile, but one does not work now. Here is the other one:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2886850/
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  3. ukxmrv

    ukxmrv Senior Member

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    Something else to think about would be a recurrent sinus infection. It can start off in the sinus area causing facial pain. Then it spreads to the stomach as you swallow what is coming from the sinus area.

    That's what was happening to me for a long time. The sinus infection wasn't always producing enough muscus to causing sneezing or a noticeable discharge but after a few days I'd get this upset stomach if I didn't tackle it straight away with a very thorough nasal rinse.

    I use a Gossan irrigator with saline water and tea tree oil.

    Ordinary cold type or allergy type rinses don't work for me.

    Antibiotics can temporarily stop this for me as well (but only Doxycycline).

    Just an idea so there are so many different things happening with patients.
     
  4. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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  5. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Hello @asymmetry - I used to have very, very similar experiences and like you, I thought I was constantly getting colds or flu's. What I have learned sense, is what I was experiencing were flares, even though I wasn't exerting myself, so it wasn't PEM.

    I felt so sick a couple of times, I went to the doctors, because I thought I had bronchitis. It turned out that I didn't have bronchitis, but boy did I feel miserable!


    I think you hit the nail on the head, so to speak, with the statement- "It's as if whatever was in there was poisoning me in someway".
    I think that's is basically what is happening. I also think that looking into leaky gut is a very good idea. I am having very good results in treating dysbiosis and leaky gut. I am quite certain now that lipopolysaccharides getting into my bloodstream from a leaky gut is what was causing my flu-like symptoms and still is to some degree, but much, much less!

    As I lessen the bacterial load in my digestive tract, my flu-like symptoms continue to lessen too. I am certain of the correlation between the bacterial overgrowth in my gut and my flu-like symptoms now.

    I feel consistently better than I have in many years as a result. I am much more active, more clear-headed and something I really didn't expect, is that I just feel happier and much more of a sense of well-being. I'm not out the woods yet, but I can see a field and a lot of sunshine from where I am!:)
     
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  6. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    thanks. I think you could be right. A few years ago I had a baloon sinuplasty to open up my sinuses. At the same time I also had a deviated septum (basically the bone in the nose) straightened. Ever since this procedure, I've had this recurrent issue. Since then I have been on co-amoxiclav, a few times. Not actually for the sinuses, but it does make me feel better. But it still comes back, and long term antibiotics arent an option, nor much fun!

    When you say tackle it right away, what's your "warning signal" something isnt quite right and you need to take action? when you get this signal, do you fire up the irrigator immediately (or as soon as poss) ?

    Is the tea tree oil your idea?

    I have tried using the Neilmed sinus rinse device. It was given to me after my procedure as mentioned above. However, lately I have stopped using it as I was sure it was making me very agitated and seem to be causing inflammation immediately after use, which I thought was odd.

    So is one theory that the sinus infection is always there, its just that on my better days my immune system has managed to get semi on top of it. But if I get tired or stressed, it comes back?

    An ENT I saw was very specific about what a sinus infection is. He was saying that it has to meet a certain criterion. Blocked nose, discharge normally bloody. Pain. I get thick discharge, but no blood or colour.
     
  7. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    Hi there! thanks so much for this. I'm glad to hear you are doing alot better. Its nice to hear a positive story, and it gives me some hope too.

    I do think I have a broken gut. Sometimes it just builds up in there some days nothing, then comes all at once and is a mix of loose, diarrhea and normal. That to me seems a bit weird. If you think of it as a core sample, like they take out the ground, it seems I have all the different ones sitting there waiting to evacuate. The flu symptoms sound very like what I get, I just dont feel right and off colour. I actually look pretty ill too.

    One thing I have observed is that my gut doesnt seem to appreciate a massive sugar hit, like say, having a piece of cake.

    I will check out lipopolysaccharides. Can I ask what priobiotics do you tend to use?

    Many thanks!
     
  8. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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  9. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    One thing I did wonder, was whether low stomach acid was preventing whatever is draining down from up there from being killed in the stomach. Im not even sure thats possible as I understand from some basic research online that many viruses can survive the acidic environment of the stomach.
     
  10. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    In my case, means my immune system is on overdrive. Mine gets worst if I drink certain tea or foods that have added supplements (they add stuff even in butter!!!) since I didn't know it took me a while to figure it out.

    Things that trigger me: Any tea that will increase immune system green tea, equineacea tea.....
    Supplements: Increase on Dvit, Zinc is a big one, if you want me w cold like symptoms give me zinc, high C.....
     
  11. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    interesting notes, thanks.
    Your mention of green tea, are you referring to the inhibition of th1 side of the immune system? I have considered this, since th1 is likely just what you need to fight off a cold or other infection taking hold (NK cells etc), first line defense stuff.

    Can you tolerate coffee?
     
  12. lnester7

    lnester7 Seven

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    I have not notice a pattern on th1 herbs vs th2 herbs (at first I was sure all th1 ones would hurt) as time has gone by (they have me on immune modulators drug Inmunovir and LDN), I react less and less. By the way I do great on Acai tea (immune modulator).

    I just still very rarely get flue like symptoms and only now to those mentioned (haven't tested in a while to see if I still react) and I am not interested in trying since the reaction to the above was so brutal.
    Note: since food can also be vasodilators and vasoconstrictors I also react badly to vasodilation foods/teas). I have Pots also. So have to watch for that too. I am still very reactive to vasodilation foods.

    Coffee and I is a estrange relationship. I never tolerated coffee until I had a baby (I would get food poison) I tested positive in the allergy test, but CFS is brutal so some days I cant go without now. I add about 2oz of very clear coffee into hot cocoa (a mocha) with more chocolate than nothing else. If I overdo I feel bad on it, a bit is ok (for now).

    Coffee is both a vasoconstriction and a vasodilator might be why I have such a bizarre relationship w it.
     
  13. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    My teeth are rotting away, but luckily not hurting (everything crossed). I am pretty bad lately, since last year when I had a brain problem and ended up in hospital for almost a week, only to be sent home tested but untreated, and ended up being referred to mental health. I don't think my problems are mental at all, but who knows?

    I can't do the intellectual posts I used to do, and have no idea whether I will be able to again.

    All happened 6 months before retirement...
     
  14. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Some people with ME have high stomach acid. I do.
     
  15. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member

    (What follows is just my anecdotal treatments based on trial and error. I have no idea if they work for anyone else.)

    Along with the "feels like a cold", I would also get sores on my lip or inside my nose. I assumed they were herpes sores, because 2g Valtrex per day has kept the sores away for 2 years now. The Valtrex was prescribed by the Open Medicine Institute.

    I still get the "cold that never turns into a cold", but less frequently and I don't get the sores anymore, which is an major improvement.

    The sinusitis/post-nasal drip was a huge issue for me. I won't get into details, but managing my sinusitis has greatly improved sleep, sore throats and headaches.

    What works for me is 2-3 nasal washes per day (NeilMed). Some will tell you that's too much, but as a former surfer, I used to get a lot more saline than that from the ocean up my sinuses with no ill effect.

    In addition, I use both the Nutribiotic Nasal Spray Plus and Nutribiotic Throat Spray ~5 times a day. This seems to break up the biofilms and loosen what's in my sinus and back of my throat, and the nasal washes flush it out.

    Also, keeping dairy to a minimum helps prevent the buildup of mucus. A small amount of dairy doesn't seem to make much difference.

    This is what has worked for me. Maybe you'll find something useful in this. Or not. Regardless, I hope you find something that helps.
     
  16. ljimbo423

    ljimbo423 Senior Member

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    Passing on hope was one of my goals, good to hear you were able to snag some.:)

    The bacteria in the gut causing problems, primarily feed on sugar and starches, cookies and cake are there perfect food, so it makes sense that your gut don't appreciate cake.

    I see you are aware of th1/th2 balance. It's my theory that after a few years, the th1 arm of the immune system becomes exhausted from fighting lipopolysaccharides in the bloodstream, from a leaky gut and that's why so many of us get repeated infections.

    As you mention above, th1 immunity is our first line of defense and it needs to be strong enough to deal with any problems that come it's way. I am certain I have a weak th1 and I am just starting to really turn that around. I used to get 6-8 colds and flu's a year, now I get 3-4.

    I just started taking Reishi, an herb that boosts th1 immunity. It is giving me a huge increase in energy, so I need to be careful with my dosing so I don't get insomnia. Reishi, and Astragalus are two good herbs to boost th1 immunity.

    I use custom probiotics "CP-1" or 1/2 VSL#3 capsule a day. Which comes out to about 55-60 billion CFU a day.

    EDIT- I forgot to mention that my severe nasal allergies have also lessened to where they are only about 1/2 to 1/3 as bad as they were, just in the last few weeks and they were bad. My nose used to be congested and running 24/7.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
  17. Mary

    Mary Senior Member

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    @asymmetry - I've dealt with a recurrent sinus infection for years. It would never get to an acute phase where I looked severely ill, no fever, but it made me feel awful and very tired. And the discharge was generally white or clear so I knew a doctor would and could do nothing for me. Every time I crashed (PEM) which was generally once a week, I would get sick with this sinus problem. So on top of having to recover from PEM, then I would have to recover from being sick so most of the time I was either crashed or sick or both. By the time I'd manage to recover from the sinus issue, I'd be crashing again. It was endless.

    Several months ago I stumbled across andrographis. My sister had a severe sinus infection and after a bad relapse after 2 courses of ABX, her doctor amazingly enough gave her an herbal remedy, the primary ingredient of which was andrographis. Within 2 or 3 days she was 90% better. And she never relapsed after that. So I started taking plain andrographis and very shortly thereafter I stopped getting nearly as sick when I crashed. I still get a tiny bit sick sometimes but nothing like I used to. So I just keep taking it, it's my magic pill! And it's cheap and a small dose does it for me. When I'm noticeably sick, 3 a day will get rid of it pretty quickly, and then I generally take 1 or 2 a day as maintenance. And take time off every once in awhile to give my body a break.

    The bug never did affect my digestive tract.
     
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  18. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member

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    Have you been tested for gut parasites? Many parasites feed on sugar so eating carb-rich foods can exacerbate symptoms.

    That your symptoms change on a predictable cycle also sounds familiar to me. I will have a few days of feeling much better after passing a foul-smelling stool of mainly mucous or water. This was much more apparent in the first 2-3 years of my illness.

    I've been considering the possibility that a particular parasite - d.fragilis - has been a significant factor in my illness. Some musings on my symptoms, tests and experience: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/could-this-be-a-parasite-warning-long-post.48377/
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
  19. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    thanks, this sounds very similar to me. A bit of exertion in the day, such as doing some DIY, or getting tired, or stressed and it comes right back again. I had not heard of andrographis, thanks for the suggestion. It seems similar to astragulus in that it appears to be a th1 stimulant.
     
    Mary likes this.
  20. asymmetry

    asymmetry

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    Big thanks to everyone, lots of suggestions there and formulating a plan. Will see how it goes, it takes time testing various approaches as you cant introduce too many changes at once otherwise it's difficult to know what worked and what didnt.
     
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