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Rebuilding supplements & suddenly hit a wall

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by juniemarie, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    I have been addressing my CBS defect for a couple of months with:
    molybdenum -500 mcg
    manganese- 10 mg
    I felt I should maintain some basics I was taking on the SMP so continued on 2-3 Yasko NHF multi, 5000 iu vit D, magnesium citrate 300 mg. For one month I was taking mk-4 30 mg but ran out several days ago. I also have been keeping an eye on my sulphur with the strips, which is coming down
    About 2 weeks ago added P5P starting with 8 mg and worked up to 16 mg. Then a week ago added 9 mg of coenzymated b2.
    Had no problems with sleep and energy was middle of the road, pretty much no change from before the supplements although when I exerted myself it seemed like I did not have to rest as long to bounce back.................then I began to get EXTREME daytime sleepiness. Could not drive or leave the house. I take adderal and this sleepiness was so bad that not even adderall could make a dent in it.
    I will add here that I do suffer from some type of borderline narcolepsy but since being on the SMP for 3 yrs that had pretty much disappeared from my life.
    I wasn't quite sure what to do and figured I had upset some balance. I decided to get rid of the multi because it has so many ingredients. That was 4 days ago and I think the sleepiness is much better now.
    But something is still wonky. The adderall is much slower to work its magic and I feel kind of flat and not so much tired as draggy like a limp noodle. Horrible metallic taste in my mouth
    Unless someone has a better idea or insight I was thinking I should just hang with these supplements as they are for a while as I dont like to drop something without giving it a chance to settle. I do have other supplements I was planning on adding one at a time niacinamide and l-carnitine fumarate.
    Want to get through this CBS thing and move to next SNP so I can finally begin addressing MTHFR.
    It makes me nervous to be without a multi and a complete set of B vits. I plan on adding all the b's one at a time as I work toward methyl & ad B12.
    Been going over my notes to see if I may have jotted down something that would shed light on whats going on and I see that I made a note that " molybdenum can lower blood sugar and make you tired"
    I would appreciate any suggestions or insight as to what might be causing this and what I should add next as I am not knowledgable at all about co factors for various supplements or chemistry of methylation cycle and I fear may have upset a delicate balance and need help to figure out how to get it back on track.
    Maybe alternate the days I take mang. & moly? Add something? Stop something?
    Forgot I took 1 sunflower lecithin yesterday to see if it would help. thanks jm
     
  2. jasrich

    jasrich

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    Following - same problem here with sudden onset of daytime sleepiness - I share most of your SNPs, including CBS.
     
  3. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    Really What things are you taking? Has daytime sleepiness ever been a problem before for you?
     
  4. helen1

    helen1 Senior Member

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    That's a huge amount of moly you're taking. I've read in several places we should take a maximum of 175 mg. Is there some reason you're taking 500?
     
  5. jasrich

    jasrich

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    Well, yes it has been a big problem before, but it had gotten much better lately with the addition of mitochondrial supports such as d-ribose, acetyl-l-carnitine, CoQ10 and mag malate. I take a lot of supps including Thorne's Stress B-Complex http://www.thorne.com/Products/Vitamins/Multi_Bs/prd~B107.jsp which contains smallish doses of MB12, methylfolate, P-5-P, and other active forms of the B vits. I had added 50mg of P-5-P to that with dinner, and then added another 50mg. I also take biotin and benfotiamine separately in the AM and with lunch. I take sunflower lecithin with breakfast and l-carnitine fumarate (switched to it from acetyl-l-carnitine because I'm almost positive that the ALC was giving me the horrible metallic taste that you're describing). My sleepiness is most acute late morning and after lunch. I also quit caffeine this week which is more likely than not the largest contributing factor to the sudden onset of fatigue, but my *habit* was only one cup of half-caff per day so I'm somewhat skeptical that it could be accounting for all of this. Oh yeah, I also take moly - 75mcg with breakfast and dinner. I don't suppose that you also have trouble with terrible, sulfur smelling gas every day, as I do (again, the worst after lunch)?
     
  6. jasrich

    jasrich

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    My Yasko SNPs (just created a new sig).
     
  7. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    jasrich I decided to add the b's separately in conenzymed forms if possible so not doing a multi Darn multi's are so tricky and then your never quite sure what is causing what because so many ingredients. I hope after I finish getting through treating my SNP's I will be able to find a multi that I will do well with. I dont mind adding the b's singly but no way I can do that with all the stuff in a multi. I have never taken ALC but for 4 yrs have had that horrible metallic thing going on It comes and goes. Yes my sleepiness(normal or usual sleepiness) hits me in late morning or depending on when I get it its usually 2-3 hrs after I get up and begin to get drowsy and have to snooze for an hour then I'm fine. Thats my pattern until this EXTREME sleepiness hit. Seems hard to believe that stopping 1 cup of 1/2 decaf coffee would cause it........considering I drink 1 cup of fully caffeinated coffee + 30 mg adderall and I could not hold my eyes open.
    No problems with the sulphur smell. I am avoiding most sulphur foods and trying to get my test strips to 400
    Had you added something new just prior to the sleepiness? What was the last thing you added to your regime and how long ago, I mean before the sleepiness attack.
    My goodness yes I see are SNP's are quite similar. So your addressing CBS now also?

    helen1 Thats 500mcg which I think is 50 mg??? 1x a day
     
  8. jasrich

    jasrich

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    Well, the Thorne B-Complex only has the Bs in it, and all in the active forms which I had worked up to supplementing almost all of individually. I was choosing what I considered to be the lesser of two evils of getting all of the Bs in in at least a low dose, since they work better together and taking too much of some of them can cause imbalances in others (or so I have read). Then I was trying to layer in higher doses of things like P-5-P, MB12, and methylfolate. So the B-Complex was to be a foundation to build on and I wasn't having much trouble with it, even taken twice per day, until recently which is why I suspect other things, most of which I have backed out now.

    The metallic taste thing was really confounding me because I was convinced that it was either the zinc or copper that I was taking, but it never resolved completely until I stopped taking the ALC and hasn't come back yet, despite starting on l-carnitine. So I'm sort of suspecting the acetyl form of that. I have more of that at home so I'm going to run an experiment and go back on it to see if the metallic taste comes back but that was pretty bad - pretty much couldn't taste food past it and things like coffee and meat seemed to really accentuate it.

    The last things that I did before the sleepiness struck was using Phenibut at night to help with sleep, doubling my evening dose of P-5-P from 50mg to 100mg, and quitting caffeine. I didn't take Phenibut last night but I did take 500mg of GABA and 200mg of l-theanine and I slept very well for me, only waking up twice and falling right back to sleep. I also cut the P-5-P back to 50mg which is what I had been taking before. Despite sleeping well last night I had a very hard time getting up and waking up and I feel pretty ragged and sore, as if I'm detoxing or herxing so I don't really know what is going on.

    I'm trying to address CBS by somewhat limiting hi thiol foods and taking moly, 75mcg with breakfast and 75mcg with dinner, along with 5mg of manganese at night. My sulfur strips usually read somewhere in the 400 range.
     
  9. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    A couple things. Vitamin D acts as a steriod in the body...thats why it makes ppl feel good, by shutting off inflammation. But you want your body to be killing bacteria and viruses and creating inflammation. Check out the marshal protocol.

    Also taking alot of "energy boosting" supplements and certain minerals like manganese, magnesium, potassium (used in the production of biofilms), might actually be feeding certain infections.

    Also, I would avoid b complexes because they usually have folate in them, and most methylation pros will tell you to avoid that. You will want something that has METHYL folate instead of regular folate.

    I would take some benedryl or .5-1mg of Melatonin to help your sleep cycle in the short term.
     
  10. LaurieL

    LaurieL Senior Member

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    juniemarie and jasrich....

    Metallic taste?!! Stop right there. Whatever combo you are taking, keep them, but lower the doses of them all. The metallic taste and the need for more sleep could be detox. Which is what you want, but by lowering the dose of your combo's, it will slow the detox and make the symptoms more manageable. It will also give you more time to evaluate whether you are actually detoxing, or mucking things up. Stop adding things at this point, and sit where you are at at lower doses. Evaluate where this takes you. Remember, low and slow.

    LaurieL
     
  11. jasrich

    jasrich

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    Following up - I had discontinued the acetyl-l-carnitine after narrowing down the metallic taste to that supplement. I replaced it with l-carnitine for a couple of weeks and the taste was not present. However, I wasn't getting the energy boost from the l-carnitine that I did from the ALC so I switched back this week. After three days on the ALC the energy is back - I'm not falling asleep in my chair like I was - but so is the taste. I don't find much on this in INET searches so I wonder what is going on. I'm going to do as you say Laurie and pull back on the dose but continue with the supp.

    Jason
     
  12. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    jasrich which form of L carnitine were you on. I have been trying out l carnitine fumerate. Thats the one recommended by Fred. I have not tried ALC yet. That metallic taste is something I have on and off....sometimes mostly on. Right now is at a minimum. Now if I could get rid of the ringing in my ears.
     
  13. jasrich

    jasrich

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  14. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    jasrich Oh so you were taking fumarate and it made you sleepy? Even though we both have sleepiness problems they must be triggered by different things as the fumarate did not make me sleepy. I tried taking biotin a few months ago and even a small amount gave me massive headache"s I am in the process of incorporating the b's individually so I know I will need to face biotin again at some point.
     
  15. jasrich

    jasrich

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    I don't know that the l-carnitine fumarate made me sleepy - it just didn't help provide the energy and wakefulness that the ALCAR seems to. Yes, biotin will cause headaches and constipation. It should be taken with magnesium which alleviates both of those side-effects.
     
  16. juniemarie

    juniemarie Senior Member

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    jasrich I was taking mag citrate with the biotin, still got headaches. Maybe whenI retry I will increase the mag a bit
     
  17. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Jason, I see a "page not found". Would you try inserting this link again? Thanks.
     
  18. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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