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Really high EBV labs -- could it be Na-K-Butyrate?

Discussion in 'Immunological' started by picante, Nov 6, 2014.

  1. picante

    picante Senior Member

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    Helena, MT USA
    I've had CFS / myofascial pain / Hashi's / MCS since I had reactivated EBV 22 years ago. Recently a doc at the state employees' clinic suggested some antibody labs.

    Results from Oct. 10, 2014:

    EBV Ab VCA, IgG U/mL [0 - 17.9] 600.00

    EBV Early Antigen Ab, IgG U/mL [0 - 8.9] 133.00

    EBV Nuclear Antigen Ab, IgG U/mL [0 - 17.9] 51.90

    Mononucleosis Test, Qual [0 - 0.5] No

    These antibody levels seem extraordinarily high. Do others with CFS have them this high? I have no prior tests to compare them to, and I don't know the implications of any of these 4 tests.

    Today I ran across this on Wikipedia: "Latent EBV in B cells can be reactivated to switch to lytic replication. This is known to happen in vivo, but what triggers it is not known precisely. In vitro, latent EBV in B cells can be reactivated by stimulating the B cell receptor, so reactivation in vivo probably takes place when latently infected B cells respond to unrelated infections.[10] In vitro, latent EBV in B cells can also be reactivated by treating the cells with sodium butyrate or TPA."

    In late August I started taking sodium-potassium-butyrate to mop up ammonia in my gut. Is there a connection?

    Thanks, I'm lost on this one.
    Julie
     
  2. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I don't know but it certainly seems like a possibility.

    This paper states:

    http://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2012/509296/

    I will see if the original papers have any more info.
     
    picante likes this.
  3. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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  4. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    hi ema. to me, this seems unlikely. in the demeirleir/Lombardi paper, it says there is an autoimmune process going on. I believe this results in a weakening of the immune system, which makes us unable to put various infections under control - such as EBV.
     
  5. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    It could be both. I don't think the butyrate is the initial trigger but it might be able to trigger a re activation that our immune system is unable to control. It's not clear to me either but I think it is worth avoiding butyrate since it is not an essential nutrient and there are other options for liver support.
     
  6. NilaJones

    NilaJones Senior Member

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    Wait, isn't part of the point in taking resistant starch to increase butyrate production by gut microbes? Am I confused?
     
    South likes this.
  7. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    i was prescribed butyrate for my leaky gut but it made me SOOOO incredibly sick, i had to stop it.
     
  8. picante

    picante Senior Member

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    Helena, MT USA
    And then there's this in the following sentence:
    "... butyrate and other HDAC inhibitors (HDACi) can also induce demethylation and reactivation of methylated, silenced genes through repression of DNA methyltransferase 1 DNMT1 [69] ..."

    I understand the words, but not the implications of that.
     
  9. picante

    picante Senior Member

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    That's interesting. It didn't make me sick.

    I'm going to talk with my ND on Tuesday. I've stopped taking the Na-K-butyrate, and will ask if it's worth running the same tests for EBV antibodies again.

    He recommended something called "Transfer Factor" (derived from colostrum?) to help my immune system. Does anyone here have experience with that? I haven't tried it yet, as I've been focused on starting Freddd's protocol.
     
  10. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    There might be a difference between endogenous production of butyrate, and large supplemental doses.
     
    picante likes this.
  11. Daffodil

    Daffodil Senior Member

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    hi picante. I took TF many yrs ago but it did not help me. It does help some people I think.
     
    picante likes this.
  12. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    I think Transfer Factor is worth a try. I know a lot of LLMDs recommend it. I actually have a bottle here waiting to try myself!
     
    picante likes this.

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