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RealClearScience: Non-Celiac Gluten Sensitivity May Not Exist

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by Firestormm, May 28, 2014.

  1. Firestormm

    Firestormm Guest

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    justy, Sherlock and Esther12 like this.
  2. JPV

    JPV Senior Member

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    golden and xchocoholic like this.
  3. Bob

    Bob

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  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    Pure whey has a similar affect on me as gluten, and seems to be a common irritant for GI and immune issues. I used to do protein shakes that were almost entirely whey, and eventually had to give them up as they were causing body-wide swelling.

    They should've picked something less problematic, but that was probably the point.
    Waverunner and justy like this.
  5. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Don't you just love the way they're trying to call this a psychological problem. Roflmao. X
    SDSue and Valentijn like this.
  6. Ren

    Ren .

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    I'm suspected to have endometriosis, according to several gyncologists.

    (I write suspected because I was supposed to have laproscopy, as recommended by a senior gynocologist, but then I was essentially blackballed from all medical care / services (including emergency room services), following what seems to have been a campaign by a general practitioner that my symptoms were all imagined. I tried to officially report all of this, but the doctor in charge said there would be no investigation bc he checked with the other doctors, and they all said they didn't do anything wrong.)


    I just wanted to add though, since many people may not know (I didn't for many years), that a gluten-free diet can make an extreme difference in pelvic pain for women with endometriosis. A non-dairy diet is also often recommended, as well as little-to-no red meat. Perhaps this is related, in part, to inflammation?


    Regarding FODMAPs though, the Clear Science article says, "Common sources of FODMAPs are bread products, chocolate, energy bars that include artificial sweeteners, mushrooms, beans, apples, and anything with high fructose corn syrup."

    I know IBS is commonly associated with endo (and endo with ME/CFS). And with these, as well, SIBO - small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, for which it's advised that one avoid things that aid fermentation: sugar (including limited fruit), yeast, fungi, vinegar, alcohol - seems very similar to FODMAPs.

    Anyway, it's been sometime since I've read about this area, but thought I'd at least add the above bit of info to the gluten and FODMAP discussion mix, should it help anyone.


    I noticed this recently as well:

    Abstract (2012)


    AIM:
    Pelvic pain affects 4% to 39% of women and accounts for 10-40% of all outpatient gynecologic visits. The etiology of painful endometriosis-related has not been fully delineated. No studies have been published concerning gluten-free diet administered to achieved relief of painful symptoms endometriosis-related. The aim of this retrospective study was to evaluate the effectiveness for the outcomes of endometriosis-related pain and quality of life of gluten-free diet in a follow-up of 12 months in patients with chronic pelvic pain endometriosis-related.

    CONCLUSION:
    In our experience, painful symptoms of endometriosis decrease after 12 months of gluten free diet.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23334113
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  7. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member

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    Pure whey affects me more than gluten. The conclusions in the above commentary/blog are completely flawed as all the study proved was that gluten was not a specific cause of the GI issues and that there is a possibility that pure whey irritates the gut too. For any conclusions, we also need to consider a double blinded trial of pure whey (with a more sensible placebo).
  8. Bob

    Bob

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    I think some of the conclusions made in the 'Real Clear Science' article (opening post) in relation to the research paper are utterly inappropriate, and also vastly overblown on the basis of a single paper.

    If there are no differences between groups, this does not indicate that the effects are 'likely psychological'. That's a really crappy piece of journalism, and a huge leap to make without any evidence to back it up. It seems like wishful thinking (bias) on the part of the journalist.

    It seems to me that the whey protein was an inappropriate control, because people don't often have large quantities of whey in their diet. The body may potentially react to large quantities of whey just because it's not used to it. The shorter 3 day trial, which tested baseline diet (no added protein) doesn't seem long enough to test for effects. (How long does diet-related inflammation take to diminish once the cause it removed? 1 day, 3 days or longer?)


    I think this might be the paper they are referring to, but it's a 2013 study, not a recent study, so I'm not certain:

    No effects of gluten in patients with self-reported non-celiac gluten sensitivity after dietary reduction of fermentable, poorly absorbed, short-chain carbohydrates.
    Biesiekierski JR, Peters SL, Newnham ED, Rosella O, Muir JG, Gibson PR.
    Gastroenterology 145:320-8.e1-3.
    2013 Aug
    Epub 2013 May 4.
    doi: 10.1053/j.gastro.2013.04.051.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23648697

    You wouldn't know if from reading the 'Real Clear Science' article, but the results from this study actually suggest that both gluten and whey cause gastrointestinal symptoms:

    So, reading the following extract from the paper (taken from the above quote), the conclusions of the 'Real Clear Science' article (i.e. that the reactions to gluten were psychological) seem spurious:

    "In all participants, gastrointestinal symptoms consistently and significantly improved during reduced FODMAP intake, but significantly worsened to a similar degree when their diets included gluten or whey protein."


    I would suggest that adding any type of protein to a diet may result in a short-term mild inflammatory reaction, and that studies like these need to be carried out over a longer period to let any initial reactions settle down.

    This is demonstrated by the peanut allergy therapy whereby patients (even with extreme allergies) are very gradually introduced to nut proteins, in tiny incremental steps, until their bodies become used to the protein and stop rejecting it. However, if introduced to a larger amount of the protein the initial reaction would be severe.
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
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  9. barbc56

    barbc56 Senior Member

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    Are there physical tests that indicate gluten sensitivity?

    I would think self reporting would only be useful if compared with phisiological indicators.
    Barb
  10. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Sometimes stool tests will show this but not always. The best test is to eliminate all grains and processed foods that way cross contamination is avoided.

    If you have one food intolerance, other food intolerances are common. That's why the paleo diet is so popular.

    If you read the stories of those who've responded, you'll see how varied this is. I know celiacs who can eat gluten without reacting until they've had too much. Their reactions are as varied as the ncgs folks.

    Tc ... x
  11. Ren

    Ren .

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    Do women doubled-up in pain, collapsed on the floor, unable to stand or walk or utter more than a few words, near blacked-out completely for over an hour count as self reporting?
    xchocoholic likes this.
  12. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    Yes, but only because we're women. If we complained of having a limp "x"
    they would've rushed to find a solution. Lol. Tc .. x

    Ps. Without even googling this, I'm 100% positive that this was treated as a psychological / sexual dysfunctional problem for women until they finally looked for the problem.
    Last edited: May 29, 2014
  13. xchocoholic

    xchocoholic Senior Member

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    I can't believe how many celiacs I know with nondigestive problems who's doctors never picked up on this. I'm hearing why from some of my doctors tho. Most will respond to my celiac diagnosis by saying " Well I'm sure that helped your digestion.". To which I respond "Yes but my ataxia vanished too". At which point they look confused.

    When I first mentioned my ataxia symptoms in my celiac support group several asked me what it was and realized that they'd had or still have it too.

    Banging my head. Tc .. x
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  14. SDSue

    SDSue Florida

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    Caution: Rant Ahead

    When the hell will these academics start believing people? Genetics are proving that we all have unique responses to various insults. I don't care if 99 people respond one way to a given stimulus and I respond differently. It doesn't make me "wrong" or "hyper vigilant" or any other psychological garbage term. It makes me unique. Being in the 1% is a terrible place to be - for now!

    Thus endeth the rant. Carry on.
    xchocoholic, Sea and natasa778 like this.

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