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Reaction to molybdenum?

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by wondrous, Oct 30, 2016.

  1. wondrous

    wondrous

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    I'm having a reaction after I take molybdenum and it only occurs in the middle of the night. I know it's the molybdenum because this reaction only happens after I take it.

    I take the molybdenum at around 9pm before bed, and when I wake up in the middle of the night, my whole body feels electrified. It's almost as if there are electrodes on my brain, these electrodes are firing, and my whole body is shaky and trembling. During one night, it felt as if my brain was being slightly compressed as if it was a muscle contracting.

    I'm taking arbitrary dosages of Thorne's Molybdenum by opening up the capsule and adding it to water. I would say it's no more than 200mcg/day; 300mcg/day at most. The purpose of the molybdenum is to bring down excess sulfites.

    Has anyone had this type of reaction after taking molybdenum or know what this reaction is? Any suggestions would be very helpful!
     
  2. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Molybdenum can interfere with copper absorption.

    With copper deficiency , there can be nerve demyelination.
    Electric shock type symptoms can be the result - possibly.
     
  3. wondrous

    wondrous

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    Thanks for that information, @Crux! :thumbsup:

    To elaborate on my symptoms, when I woke up this morning, the symptoms actually remained. Along with the Parkinson's-like shaking and trembling, I developed a metallic taste in my mouth, a slight headache towards the back of my head, and a weird fog-like sensation in my head. Eyes are extra glossy too.

    After I ate breakfast, the shakiness seemed to ameliorate to an extent. I've just never had these symptoms carry over into the next day. They usually only happen in the middle of the night and are unnoticeable in the morning. Not this time.
     
  4. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    You're welcome @wondrous, those symptoms are awful.

    It's not that the molybdenum dosage was high, but that perhaps it revealed the low copper.
    Copper deficiency symptoms can be all over the map.

    Are you getting enough copper in your diet, or ,are you taking a lot of zinc? Iron can really interfere with copper too.

    edit : also, ascorbic acid, and fructose can lower copper absorption.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
    wondrous likes this.
  5. wondrous

    wondrous

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    You have me thinking now: I used to be able to take 1000mcg of molybdenum 2x a day with no issues at all. Now I can barely tolerate 200-300mcg of molybdenum a day without having these symptoms.

    I'm not taking a lot of zinc; just what I get through my diet.

    My diet has changed drastically recently because of yeast issues and a sulfur sensitivity.

    I was initially attributing this reaction to detoxing excess sulfur, but I've been taking the molybdenum for well over 4 weeks now and feel like my sulfur levels should have come down by now.

    You might be onto something with this reaction being due to a copper deficiency because of my recent dietary changes as opposed to removing excess sulfur.
     
  6. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Yeah, I've also run into this copper deficiency repeatedly.

    Sulfur can be problematic too. Just started reading about it.

    I've switched the diet recently, and forgot about copper.
    -Got iron overload, and that causes copper deficiency.

    Now, I'm resigned to taking a supplement.

    Demyelination is extremely painful.
     
  7. wondrous

    wondrous

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    How did you test your copper levels? Basic blood work?

    Fortunately, if this is demyelination, I'm not experiencing any pain; just the unusual systemic trembling.

    Now I'm contemplating if I want to add beans back into my diet as I've been avoiding them for the past 4 weeks due them being on the high sulfur/thiol list. I know beans are relatively higher in copper than anything I'm eating at the moment.

    I'd much rather get these nutrients through food than supplementation.

    @Crux, you've been such a big help and may have helped me find the missing piece to an enigmatic health challenge that's been hitting me hard the past few months. Thank you so much! :)
     
  8. wondrous

    wondrous

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    Actually, it would probably be unwise to use beans as a source for copper because they're much higher in molybdenum than they are in copper. :(

    I'll run this information by my doctor and see what she says.
     
    Crux likes this.
  9. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    The electric shocks you've been having may be a symptom of demyelination. You haven't been having them very long; that's good.

    I've had them off and on for years, but still after increasing copper, they're gone again.

    I miss beans, but couldn't tolerate the starch, or carbs in general. I suspect low copper.

    Nuts and chocolate were my main copper source. The trouble happened when I restricted them.
    -Became intolerant to liver, oysters, etc. because of the iron.
    -Now having nuts and unsweetened chocolate again.

    Here's an article about copper deficiency in ruminants and humans. There's much more info about copper deficiency in animals than people.
    http://advances.nutrition.org/content/3/5/666.full
     
  10. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    Oh,
    I got a serum copper and ceruloplasmin test.

    Some say RBC copper is more accurate. Some researchers think a test for SOD, a copper enzyme may better predict status.

    I went for what was easiest.

    Best,
    C.
     
  11. wondrous

    wondrous

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    I used to eat almond and peanut butter -- even pistachios -- but for whatever reason, haven't been able to tolerate them as of late.

    I know some people have a difficult time with beans. I heard that if you do, you should slowly work them into your meals and your body will get used to them. I don't know how true this is.

    Thanks for the article!

    I had a serum copper level done this past August and it came back in the normal range, but just barely. Mind you, this is before I further restricted my diet by avoiding high sulfur foods.
     
  12. Crux

    Crux Senior Member

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    With a low normal serum copper, many suspect low copper.

    I'd been taking it for a month ; it was in the lower third range. Ceruloplasmin was just in range.

    So much of what we read in the alternative field is about copper toxicity, which can happen, but this is so overblown.
    There is still new research about copper that parrots the outdated stuff.

    Copper can be elevated in the serum due to infection/inflammation but be deficient in storage or other organs.

    There is newer research coming out that is showing more cases of copper deficiency even in Alzheimer's disease.
    Copper and zinc deposition has been blamed for this, but it looks like iron deposition is more of an issue.

    http://www.nature.com/articles/srep27524

    OK, apologies, just had to post this. ^
    Hope things go well with the doctor.
     
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  13. wondrous

    wondrous

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    Thanks, @Crux, for that additional information! I'm definitely going to consider what you proposed today because it honestly makes sense.

    Instead of the beans, I ended up making some baby bella mushrooms with dinner (which are dense with copper). I'm actually feeling a little more normal now.

    Once again, I really appreciate all of your help today! You may have saved me from a bunch of guesswork and frustration. Thank you! :)
     
    Crux likes this.

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