Dr. Bateman answers IOM questions from the community: Part 2
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Reacting to sublinguals and patches :(

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Al Klein, Jul 17, 2013.

  1. My mouth is sore from the Jarrows 5000, my body is covered in square rashes from the B12 patches - I am feeling better for doing both at the same time, but guess that injections are the way to go now.

    Anyone else experienced problems with reacting to subs and patches?
  2. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

    Amersfoort, Netherlands
    I do hydroxyB12 sublingually instead of methylB12, and don't have that problem. But yeah, the Jarrows does the same thing on the rare occasion that I've taken it.
  3. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

    Western Nebraska
    There is another option besides injections. A new product called Red B12 came on the market on June 25, 2013. It is B12 in an oil-based solvent that is applied topically. The active ingredients are formulated within natural vegetable oils and emulsifying agents allowing easy application to the skin with subsequent penetration of both the water-soluble and oil soluble molecules.The solution comes in a 10 ml. pump that is very well protected from light, and you just press down on the pump and a preset amount squirts out. You get about 40 applications for each pump.

    Regarding dosing, the company says: The dose is 10 mg/ml in the pump. Of this 7.5 mg is Ado and 2.5 is MeCbl. This is actually a very similar composition to that found in the body, and is the maximum solubility that can be achieved for the mix. FYI the MeCbl is at its maximum solubility. The pump delivers just over 0.25 ml per squirt, so the actual topical dose is around 2.5 mg. Now if you rub the material in very well it should give you about 10-50x what the sublingual dose delivers, so just less than an IM dose, but that depends upon what the IM dose is.

    The Red B12 is made by Mentor Consulting of Australia, a pharmaceutical consulting company, and they sell this product at http://transdermoil.com/products/transdermoil-b12. It's $39 plus shipping for one pump, less if you buy 3.

    Although they don't have it up on their website, Mentor Consulting has also just developed the ability to get hydroxycobalamin soluble in a topical formulation. So they can easily make up any combination now, stand alone adenoCbl, methylCbl, or hydroxyCbl, or mixture of any or all of them.

    The maximum solubility is AdoCbl - 10 mg/ml, MeCbl - 3 mg/ml, OHCbl - 10 mg/ml. For the mixtures, AdoCbl/OHCbl 10 mg total 5 mg/ml of each. For either Ado/MeCbl or OH/MeCbl, maximum is still 10 mg/ml, but that would be 7.5 mg/ml of either the OH or AdoCbl, with 2.5 mg/ml MeCbl. Because these are new products, any product other than the Red B12 will need to be ordered from Gregory Russell-Jones at russelljonesg@gmail.com. If there is a demand, these other products will be added to the website.

    Before I started using Jarrow sub mB12, I already had enamel erosion of my teeth, and after using Jarrow's mB12 for a year, using Freddd's technique of tucking it under my upper lip, it's gotten much worse. Because of my genetics, I will be on B12 for life, so I was ready to ditch sublinguals and go with injections. However, I read Chris Kessler's B12 blog. Greg is a participant there and had mentioned a topical B12 formulation to be forthcoming. I wrote to Greg a few months ago to inquire about his product and I then tried the Red B12 before it came on the market. I had an OAT test 2 weeks after using 1 pump of Red B12, and my MMA was well below the median level.

    I have no affiliation with this company. I would like this product to stay on the market, because I prefer topical administration and because their preliminary testing has reportedly shown excellent results. If there are enough customers, then the product should stay on the market, and perhaps the product and/or shipping costs will come down.

  4. Ooh thanks Lynn! are you in UK too?
  5. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

  6. Lynn_M

    Lynn_M Senior Member

    Western Nebraska
    I'm in the US, in Nebraska.
  7. Thank you all fro the suggestions I will have a good look as I would like to avoif injecting if I can.

    I DO have pernicious anemia (anti parietal antibodies) so I need to make sure I get enough B12 (and methylfolate, B multis, magnesium, potassium etc etc)
  8. Bluebell

    Bluebell Senior Member

    Al Klein, I have little experience in this area as I've only just learned about methylation recently.

    With that being said, regarding the sublingual, I am wondering if you might be reacting to a substance in the product other than the B12 itself.

    So many of the methylcobalamin sublinguals have ingredients that can cause irritation or even wear away tooth enamel, such as citric acid.

    Besides avoiding holding acids in my mouth (as advised by my dentist because my tooth enamel is fragile), I try to avoid artificial sweeteners, flavorings, and colorings where possible, and most methyl sublinguals have those too.

    Of all the methyl B12 options, I chose Natural Factors sublinguals, because all they have in them are: lactose, cellulose, croscarmellose sodium, magnesium stearate. I got the 1000 mcg and they also have 5000 mcg.

    Note that in those doses, Natural Factors seems to have two forms of methylcobalamin for sale, and the other form has the more traditional flavorings and artificial sweeteners, so one must be observant when ordering.

    [If you are a follower of Freddd's protocol, from what I could tell in my research, it seems that he rated the Natural Factors methylB12 a 3-star or 4-star, meaning he did feel effects from it, but it wasn't in his top 5-star level -- which now only contains one product.]

    Since ordering the methyl form of B12, which I did before I got my genetic tests back, I have received my results and found out that I am compound heterozygous for the main 2 MTHFR mutations, and apparently people with my SNPs are meant to use hydroxocobalamin instead of methylcobalamin.

    Therefore, I recently ordered Perque hydroxocobalamin. It contains mannitol, succanat, magnesium, and cherry fruit extract. I am not thrilled with the natural and artificial sweeteners in that, but at least there is no citric acid in it.

    So, before giving up entirely on sublingual methylcobalamin, you might want to try the gentle Natural Factors one, or maybe give the Perque hydroxocobalamin a shot.
    Valentijn likes this.

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