Raw vegan (or almost raw-vegan) issues with CFS

[brenda]

@Effi

The need for 'perfection' in the diet, is only for the healing detox phase. They are very strict with that. But once the body has detoxed and is healed which takes about 2 years in the average non chronically ill person, then they will all admit to having relapses themselves and that it is acceptable and normal life. A spell of strictness afterwards will correct it. They want tpeople to follow their recomendations and not their practices.

I don't think their intention was to make anyone feel inferior.

I loved the diet but am too complicated to do it now as grains make me sick. I do believe that it is wonderful for cancer.

 

[Effi]

I loved the diet but am too complicated to do it now as grains make me sick. I do believe that it is wonderful for cancer.

Same here, thrived on it, but my ME actually started when I was still eating that way (go figure). Now I can't handle any grains whatsoever, so macro is out of the question.

I used to believe the whole 'eat yourself healthy' thing... but I'm not so convinced now. If we're talking about things like diabetes type II, or certain cancers that are induced by poor lifestyle, I could see it happening. But I was doing everything 'right' by the book, and I still got sick. And now I've been tweaking my diet for years, but the ME doesn't budge.

We're drifting a bit off topic I'm afraid.

 

[brenda]

@Effi Oh I still believe it is possible. I don't think it's easy though getting it right and it takes longer than we think, and that an infection can mess things up for some time and we will need some help to get rid of it. I use Rife to do that.

 

[CantThink]

I don't really care if people drink or smoke or break their diet. It's just that they can make people feel like they are this perfect example, but I think it's impossible to follow a diet 100% all the time. In fact I think that would be unhealthy.

I see this with veganism and raw vegans a lot. I have seen it in the 'no sugar' and the paleo communities too. It is not just a way of eating - it becomes a fundamentalism. It comes across IMO that there is a certain superiority gained through this way of eating and lifestyle choice. It is almost religious.

For example, posting propaganda on Instagram or Facebook around farming or whatever they disagree with to try to shock, create fear, disgust etc in meat eaters. As a friend of mine pointed out, she had never met a veggie/vegan who didn't try to 'convert' her from meat eating (except me when I only ate fish + ovo lacto).

I am all for compassionate farming - I will always buy the highest quality I can afford... E.g. raw milk direct from the farm where I can see and interact with the animals, organic/free range meat etc., because I do care and when rearing animals myself would adopt the same principles. However, I don't feel that everyone needs to eat the same way... We are all so different and what suits one person doesn't necessarily suit another.

I would find veganism and raw vegans easier to engage with if they were less fantastical and more respectful of other's choices in their approach. There will be people who choose this diet, who suit it and some for whom it is incredibly healing. The same as other diets!

Interestingly enough, when I was in this phase of my life, I did a juice fast. I started to react to that so quickly - I am not sure what was going on but it seemed I was detoxing rapidly like a heroin addict! I had the shakes, feverish sweating, vomiting, nausea, headache.... I just lay there writhing around praying for mercy and vomiting every so often. I felt so weak. I had a similar reaction to an infra red sauna. I still don't know of it was detox or my body placed under too much strain.

 

[mango]

My digestion was so weak that it had too much difficulty digesting the raw and generally cold food.

I have the same experience with raw. I haven't noticed any other problems with a vegetarian or vegan diet.

 

[Adlyfrost]

I don't buy this back to nature crap. When I started this thread I was talking about raw-vegan diet for health not as a philosophy or ideology though philosophies are interesting and I think they are worth talking about. But really- what the heck is natural about us being so freakin sick and having to take 100+ supplements a day to function? This 'as nature intended' crap has no merits with me. NATURE STABBED ME IN THE BACK WHEN I GOT SICK!!! Yeah @Effi I felt like I was doing everything "right" too.

So if I have to take 100 enzymes a day with my almost raw vegan diet and a chicken has to die once a week to fuel my bone broths and I have to put 500$ a month on the credit card I will never be able to pay off, to buy all these supplements that may or may not work then heck, by these all organic, strict vegan, commune-loving self-sufficient Spartan whacko's standards (the above mentioned gurus), this hypocrite (ME) should be shot! But I'm not gonna let myself think that way.

I'm going to steal all their ideas and find which work and which don't. I think we PWME are a special population and it is interesting how different diets affect us- how things which seem 'healthy' for others are not healthy for us, and how we differ among ourselves. The media completely ignores us, including the gurus. Try posting an honest question under their videos and most delete it or ignore it. I believe it that many are drinking smoking or eating pizza when they are not flaunting their amazing genes augmented by the same green smoothie that just put me back in bed for the day.

Ok end of my venting.

 

[Effi]

haha @Adlyfrost well said!

 

[CantThink]

 

[chilove]

I've been a raw vegan eating a low fat fruit based diet for many years. I first went raw when I was misdiagnosed with fibromylagia (found out many years later it was actually Lyme and co-infections). Going raw got rid of ALL the fibro like pain and chronic fatigue. It was truly amazing in terms of symptom relief. Lyme persisted and gave me other symptoms later but I still eat a raw vegan diet because I feel the best on it. I don't have any issues with sugar metabolism or oxalates.

 

[naoise]

I've been a raw vegan eating a low fat fruit based diet for many years. I first went raw when I was misdiagnosed with fibromylagia (found out many years later it was actually Lyme and co-infections). Going raw got rid of ALL the fibro like pain and chronic fatigue. It was truly amazing in terms of symptom relief. Lyme persisted and gave me other symptoms later but I still eat a raw vegan diet because I feel the best on it. I don't have any issues with sugar metabolism or oxalates.

Hi...I'm looking at moving to raw vegan. I've noticed when I eat fish (only protein I eat) I get Symtpoms, bloating, pains, cravings etc. How have you found the raw diet? Does your doctor agree with it? I'm worried mine won't.

 

[parabola]

No point me repeating what everyone else said but suffice to say it makes me ill. From what I have seen, a large proportion of the people touting the benefits are people likely coming from a calorie restricting/ED background, and so they're bound to feel better when they start eating an abundance of carbs and micronutrients.

There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that, throughout history and independently of geographical location/availability, hunter gatherers would always seek out some meat, even if it meant going to great lengths. Likewise those with access to meat would go to great lengths to seek out vegetation.

 

[naoise]

T

No point me repeating what everyone else said but suffice to say it makes me ill. From what I have seen, a large proportion of the people touting the benefits are people likely coming from a calorie restricting/ED background, and so they're bound to feel better when they start eating an abundance of carbs and micronutrients.

There is also plenty of evidence to suggest that, throughout history and independently of geographical location/availability, hunter gatherers would always seek out some meat, even if it meant going to great lengths. Likewise those with access to meat would go to great lengths to seek out vegetation.

thank you - I can understand everything you say. I guess my body just doesn't react well with meat and I only eat fish but that's starting to give me issues as I have a histamine intolerance. I might look at vegan rather than raw.

 

[parabola]

T

thank you - I can understand everything you say. I guess my body just doesn't react well with meat and I only eat fish but that's starting to give me issues as I have a histamine intolerance. I might look at vegan rather than raw.

It sounds sensible to eat everything well cooked for easier digestion. Don't believe the hype over enzymes making raw foods easier to digest, thinking about it logically, plants aren't going to contain the enzymes to digest themselves. Heat is needed to break down some of the cellulose bonds andbfrre up glucose, and to help denature proteins which, if your gut wall integrity is compromised (say by coeliac disease) then they're going to start causing immune reactions. How do you do with meats that have been cooked for hours like stews?

 

[naoise]

It sounds sensible to eat everything well cooked for easier digestion. Don't believe the hype over enzymes making raw foods easier to digest, thinking about it logically, plants aren't going to contain the enzymes to digest themselves. Heat is needed to break down some of the cellulose bonds andbfrre up glucose, and to help denature proteins which, if your gut wall integrity is compromised (say by coeliac disease) then they're going to start causing immune reactions. How do you do with meats that have been cooked for hours like stews?

No I've tried broths etc that have been cooked for hours but my histamine doesn't like it. Meat in general just doesn't sit well with me and I wish it did. I find salads great, juices and avocado. Wish it was meat that was best!